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Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

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cor
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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby cor » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:06 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:You either end up with a huge list of compromises or you end up with an inferior product.
Couldn't agree more. Somehow, this concept here reminds me of those mutant boards which are not very popular exactly because they come with a huge list of compromises.

I agree with Toby and all the others saying "ride whatever is fun for you". Yes, of course this is true. However, I have my doubts that this concept will actually be fun to a lot of ppl in the long run. I rather think someone going for the twintip HF will quickly see the benefits of a directional foil and switch soon after.

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby cglazier » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:07 pm

Most experienced hydrofoilers look at this twin-tip hydrofoil and can tell at a glance that it will not perform very well. We shall see. Offering opinions is what this forum is all about. Nobody is trying to stifle innovation.. we could all be wrong. But for those of you who are new to hydrofoiling, I suggest that you consider the advice from experienced riders above before spending money on a product like this.

:wink: CG

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby Jollydriver » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:38 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:How many twin tip airplanes do we have on the market? Have you ever seen a twin tip sailboat? Have you ever ridden a bicycle that goes backwards as well as it goes forwards?
Twin tip airplanes no, but if you turn the prop into a rotor, the resulting aircraft (a helicopter) is more than happy to fly forwards, backwards, or sideways. This is even better demonstrated by quad-copter drones that will happily buzz in any direction without turning. A fixed gear bicycle will pedal just as fast backwards as forwards...its just the human mechanics that aren't so good at pedaling or steering backwards.

And finally, the proa is a boat which is just as happy going forwards as backwards. In 1968, an 11 meter proa named Cheers placed 3rd (of 24 entrants) in the Observer's Singlehanded Trans-Atlantic Race (OSTAR) from Plymouth, England to Newport, Rhode Island, being beaten by a 15 meter and 17 meter monohull, which were high level at the time (open ocean racing catamarans and trimarans were just coming on the scene).

Now in all of these cases I'm comparing apples to....watermelons, and I'm really not trying to be contentious, but I do have two points. First, if you allow yourself to be limited by your existing views and beliefs, then innovation will always be out of reach. Second, I don't think the directional KBHF crowd should feel threatened in any way by the possible development of the TTHF.

I'll end with a final point. Flysurfer had the Flyrace board, which would do ok at local level races, but it was outclassed by the state of the art boards even at its introduction. It was a fine board for light wind, going fast, and an aspiring local racer, but to my knowledge it never won a major international competition. On the other hand, if you compared the Flyrace to race boards from 4-5 years earlier, it was competitive and perhaps even faster (I'm thinking Gen 1-2 North LTD for example). If a TTHF can be developed which has a respectable ease of use, and is as fast if not faster than an old Carifino (insert spitting noise) or a Gen 1 LF Foil Fish, then I say go for it, and I'm sure there will be a niche for it in the market.

JD
Last edited by Jollydriver on Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:41 pm

Jollydriver wrote:
Twin tip airplanes no, but if you turn the prop into a rotor, the resulting aircraft (a helicopter) is more than happy to fly forwards, backwards, or sideways.
Show me a helicopter whose rotors create lift when turning either clockwise or counter-clockwise

Image

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby Jollydriver » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:50 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Jollydriver wrote:
Twin tip airplanes no, but if you turn the prop into a rotor, the resulting aircraft (a helicopter) is more than happy to fly forwards, backwards, or sideways.
Show me a helicopter whose rotors create lift when turning either clockwise or counter-clockwise
helicopter.jpg
helicopter.jpg (8.3 KiB) Viewed 760 times
This helicopter has rotors which turn clockwise and counter-clockwise at the same time and create a lot of lift and speed :rollgrin:

Of course I understand what your true intent was (the same rotor turning clockwise or counter-clockwise), but I had to have a little fun.

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:03 pm

Jollydriver wrote:Of course I understand what your true intent was
:lol:

But you see what I mean about TTHF...it's not the idea of a TTHF that chaps my ass, it's the idea that companies would charge good money claiming that a bidirectional wing shape can ostensibly provide a fun riding experience. At best it'll just be a plow through the water, at worst it'll be really hard to ride and super unstable.

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby revhed » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:25 pm

cglazier wrote:Most experienced hydrofoilers look at this twin-tip hydrofoil and can tell at a glance that it will not perform very well. We shall see. Offering opinions is what this forum is all about. Nobody is trying to stifle innovation.. we could all be wrong. But for those of you who are new to hydrofoiling, I suggest that you consider the advice from experienced riders above before spending money on a product like this.

:wink: CG
:thumb:
I spent way to much time building and tweaking a TT, bidi and still flies poor, and know someone who is WAY more advanced in both design, building and flying than myself
and is very close to giving up on this design.
NOT to say that maybe someday one MIGHT fly ok.
R H

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby revhed » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:29 pm

Mossy 757 wrote: :lol:
it's the idea that companies would charge good money claiming that a bidirectional wing shape can ostensibly provide a fun riding experience. At best it'll just be a plow through the water, at worst it'll be really hard to ride and super unstable.
:thumb:
I repeat from experience, really hard to ride and super unstable! :o
I simply can not agree more, buyer and builder beware!
R H

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby sabraxas » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:35 pm

Mossy 757 wrote: A twin tip is a displacement board that planes on a flat surface...
Do not explain that to me. You should explain to that windsurfer.

Anyway, I dont mind airplanes, choppers, etc and all the theory.
There are kites that are aerodinamically bullshit, but they are enough perfect for some purposes and riding styles. Ask Starky what does he think about Low AR strutless... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Postby Toby » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:48 pm

cor wrote:I agree with Toby and all the others saying "ride whatever is fun for you". Yes, of course this is true. However, I have my doubts that this concept will actually be fun to a lot of ppl in the long run. I rather think someone going for the twintip HF will quickly see the benefits of a directional foil and switch soon after.
which is fine! But not needed. Options are good to have. How many less kiters would we have if there were no options in the sport?


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