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Why not more canards ?

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borist
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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby borist » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:33 am

JakeFarley wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:49 pm
So how do you handle sea grass collecting on the foil? My area has a lot of it and for my surfboard I just ollie to shed them. Would you perform some sort of maneuver to shed them?
A jump works quite well. I can shed some of the grass shaking foil in the air, but not all of it. Landing straight down is the best. If all fails, I'll stop and let it float away buy dragging myself downwind few feet to clear the area.
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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby tswierkocki » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:38 am

bragnouff wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:53 am
What is it you reckon that allowed your progression again? Do you think it's the canard geometry that was limiting you, or mostly the fact that your S24 is significantly bigger? (1126cm2 vs 800cm2 for the XLW)
When I put the bigger XXLW wings, most of the things were initially easier due to extra lift and slower speed required in everything, which made attempts not necessarily as committed and less punishing when screwing up. That definitely contributes to the learning curve.
I think the larger wings, pitch stability, and large sweet spot for foot placement made it easier for me to progress quicker on the S24.

The large wings let me ride really slow when needed without losing lift. The pitch stability make switching feet easier. The large sweet spot for your foot placement allows me to ride away after making mistakes.

What like about the S24 is that it is very stable in a straight line but carves a nice tight turn. It is fast enough to be interesting for me but not to fast to outrun a wave.

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby ronnie » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:51 am

The Duotone wing does seem near to being in production now. I think it will be of benefit to the XXLW Spitfire, as the canard is not good at pumping (apparently it can pump, but it is not good at it). The XXLW has not been released as a windfoil version, but that would not matter if using a wing, as the standard SUP version would work with a wing.



Now my tennis elbow seems to have recovered, I will be getting back to progressing my windfoiling, and I think ideally it is best to be at a certain level of foiling before switching to a wing (and maybe the XXLW Spitfire).

I could switch to a wing on this by moving the foil to the front of the tracks.
IMGP0372.JPG

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:18 pm

Finally I got some riding with the Zeeko Spitfire XLW (on a 108 cm pocket board), my first impressions:

As expected, having ridden the std Spitfire some years ago, one has to get used to it.
Meaning, easy to ride straight away, BUT, you have to use maybe 5 sessions to get you muscle memory dialed in to a canard - in regards of turning well, and also low end (as low end is highly dependant on how clean you ride any foil)

On my 4th day, yesterday, a few waves and sets came along all the way from Sweden, wind 45 degree onshore (perfect foil wave direction IMO), almost 14 knots of wind and out with a 7 m2 kite.

It is REALLY stable at higher speed, quite impressive and no issues. At low speed pitch stable too with these wings, easy.

Starts as early as a medium-big "normal" wavehydrofoil.

It runs over whitewater where I sometimes breach the front wing, and it usually just recovers again, quite extraordinary for a foil.

Because of the bigger wings, it is not fully as lively as the std wingset which was VERY agile, or a non-canard with a really small rear stab.

The thing it is all about though, REAR FOOT BIAS, is key, and when making a cutback you get this lovely feel many of us knows from windsurfing, it just feels GOOD when you press against the wave or in a turn - I really like it :thumb:


Nice good sets rolling in outside, yeeees :naughty:

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Inside having fun, playing in the smaller waves

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Actually in a cutback I managed to make a bit of spray, dont know how as it should not be possible?

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And what it is all about, THIS feel - yihaaa :rollgrin:

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Great day, sunny and fun :D

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8) Peter
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby tomtom » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:28 pm

So it is keeper?

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby codifilo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:12 pm

Hey Peter, that's also my setup and I'm very happy with it.

I removed the stock pad from my Mini Pocket and installed a surf pad with a kicker and the most important thing is making sure that my rear foot which I put on the kicker is exactly above the rear wing as that's the big wing which drives the foil. That's where the money is and I didn't click with the Spitfire until I found that out.

Last Friday I had a glorious sunny session.

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Peter_Frank (Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:22 pm)
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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby Zeeko » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:53 am

Hi,

very nice and positive reports.
From my own experience, I love more and more the canard foils, specially since I surfoil.
I could agree, for pumping the canard foils are maybe not the best, as a foil kite is not the best for freestyle tricks.
But when you are looking for carving, and surf feeling, no foils had this feeling.
Now I ride both foils, depends on what I'm looking for surfoiling (puming or surfing) but for kiting, most of the time I ride the spitfire.
Hey Pete, you tried the xlw 2years after the standard one, now we have the XLW wings with AVS (anti ventilation skin) which slowes the ventilation during turns (even if ventilation is less detrimental on canard foil compare to the others) and more, the XXLW one which I ride the most with a 80cm mast (bullet mast works perfectly on it)

Below is Fred Compagnon, one of the most talented french surf in Marroco riding the canard foil and loved it

ride easy
Nicolas
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fed2.jpg

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby lederhosen » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:03 am

I also love the spitfire xlw and can confirm a low pumpability. Why is it that a canard does not pump as well?

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby NYKiter » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:02 pm

I think we dont see a lot of them because the seem very unstable on straight runs...particularly in high winds - even with XL wings....although its good once you get into wave...which is probably only 20% of riding....

Sold mine off a while ago....

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby jakemoore » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:17 pm

NYKiter wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:02 pm
the seem very unstable on straight runs...particularly in high winds - even with XL wings....although its good once you get into wave...
I'm not convinced this is specific to canard foils. Zeeko Spitfire is totally flat without anhedral or winglets on both the wing and canard. Spitfire has low yaw stability and is easy to initiate a strong roll with yaw, but is pitch stable.

The Stringy foils I have ridden have a similar feeling of wanting to turn.

If I were to guess why not more it would be distribution challenges from small manufacturers and risk tolerance among the big.


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