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Hi all, has anyone ridden the Shinn el Stubbo Zeeko Aluminium 90cm Hydrofoil? Would you recommend it? I'm looking to get into foiling. Have never foiled before but don't want to waste time on a 30 or 60cm mast, just want to get one hydrofoil for freeriding when the winds too light for wakestyle/there's no swell! Thanks

here Is a question for you: if you can’t make a jibe in your first 30+ sessions with the 90cm mast, will you feel like you wasted some time?
I learned on 90cm mast myself but at 25 or so sessions I don’t consistently make all my jibes. Usually crash. I would say if you are not kiting every week you might as well get a short mast, would definitely make the first season easier. Maybe the second season too if you don’t ride constantly, have shallow water etc.

Great set up, but pretty tough to learn on.

I learned on that foil with a full length mast, but used a much bigger foam filled board for the first season. Ditched the front strap as soon as I could, but it was pretty important at the beginning.

Thanks for all your responses. My main limiting factor is funds. I very much want to learn to foil but have very limited funds. Therefore even purchasing and selling shorter masts seems to be a waste of funds when I can just perservere. I have been kiting for over 10 years now and can gybe confidently on a surf board. I feel that I can cope with multiple crashes without needing to learn on a mast that I'm only going to use for a few sessions before wanting to lengthen.

I thought I was a pretty decent kiter but it was still pretty humbling. You can for sure learn on a full mast. Many have done it. Its the low volume board that is small enough that it just wont handle the kind of touchdowns your going to be getting. Even a cheap sacrificial surfboard with bit of diy mount work will be money well spent. That shin board will be great once you can reliably get around a corner.

Heres a video

https://youtu.be/EFAT1aEDcJI

I did learn on that exact setup last year during a trip to Cuba. In fact it's exactly a year ago (i just came back again from Cuba). It took me about 3-4hrs to be able to foil on the Zeeko/90cm with El Stubbo. It was in perfect conditions which help tremendously. For example, my friend tried the same setup in rather average to bad conditions and after about 5-6 sessions he was still unable to foil! But after 10min on a Shinn P foil with 60cm mast he was foiling and after few hours more doing transitions to toe side while foiling. So you see the difference. So if you can at least find good conditions to learn this will really help you and yes it is a good combo but just a bit harder then a true beginner foil.

I like the comments that say someone tried for 4 hours on one foil and couldn’t, then switched to another and in 2 hrs could.
Says to me that in 6 hrs you could foil.
Or maybe you were half an hour away from clicking but lost 3.5hrs relearning the new set up.

Heaps of foilers started and progress on the 90cm mast
For me it gives you more time to control climb and settle into straight and level flight. Then running at half mast leaves enough mast in water to add stability.
Then you don’t have to relearn foiling when you move from short to long.

I bet loads of better riders could learn to foil on a small low volume board in no time. I tried with a tiny board and quickly sized up. don't think I would buy a short mast given the choice over, but I bet it speeds the learning curve and lessens the beating. I would advise anyone older than me to get a short mast and anyone younger that its probably nice but not necessary.

For sure you can learn on that gear...I did and I'm no prodigy.

This is what'll happen though: at first, you'll try to water start like a TT and you'll get ejected. Then you'll get up onto the board and edge up like a TT and get ejected. Then you'll get up on the foil and while you're figuring out the balance, you'll get ejected or worse, jackknifed.

You're going to get ejected a lot

A short mast will limit your ejections to breach n' splashdowns, and a high-volume board will make it easier to stay on the board between kite power strokes.

So now you know roughly what you face...

These are my solutions:
1. When you water start, aim the board way more downwind than normal, sink your back foot to resist the kite and lever yourself over your back foot to slam down your front foot. Imagine dropping into a halfpipe on a skateboard.
2. Ride the board flat on the water, keeping your weight over your front foot (yoga side lunge or bend your front knee) and stand upright with relaxed knees. Imagine you're an extension of the mast: a straight line between the fuselage and your head!
3. Ride the board flat on the water (yes again) and turn your head & shoulders to look upwind -- your ass will follow, and so will the board.
4. Ride the board flat on the water (got it yet?) and let your board speed increase with power in the kite. The foil will fly when you have enough speed, and you must keep your weight forward so the foil will just clear the water.
5. Keep doing number 4. When you can skim the surface easily, you can probably ride with the mast further out...

You initial goal should always be to ride the board flat on the water. Any attempt to hop the board up on the foil will result in an ejection, because you haven't got the muscle memory yet to balance on the foil.

This is why you want good clean, reasonable wind and not a tiny kite:
You want enough wind so you can ride without fighting to keep the kite in the sky and can just sheet in for power, but not so much you get pulled off balance. I found that if you can body drag ok but would feel underpowered on a TT, you're probably right.
You want a small/fast enough kite that you can stroke without waiting for it to climb but not so small you have to work it all the time for power. I found 10m in ~15 knots perfect.

Final points -- getting away from shallow water is hard. Learn to body drag or for the first couple of sessions, get a ride way the hell upwind of your beach.
Limit your sessions to about an hour; they're very tiring and getting body slammed every minute wears you out.
Don't get back on your TT (especially not in the same session!) until you can comfortably get on the board and keep it on the water. Maybe 3 sessions.
You probably need to ride faster than you would on a TT. It's actually easier to control the foil with more speed...