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Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

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pikovsg
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Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby pikovsg » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:15 pm

I've been swooned and in blissful honeymoon with 633 ever since it came out and got rave reviews on this forum.

However, many of you are going to disagree with what's about to come next.

One day I went down into the basement and remembered my Lift 150, a wing that has been gathering dust down there ever since the introduction of the 633. I put the Lift up for sale a bit earlier. Not sure why, but for the sake of "science" I decided to compare the two wings that day. Well, one session turned into two, then three, four, five, etc, etc. Now, after five months of comparing, I'm completely blown away. The 150 is a MUCH better foil for waves and freestyle. It's not even a contest. It's more carvy on flat water and waves, is more weight-balanced, is lighter, faster, boosts better, tacks better, and just results in a much bigger stoke than 633.

That said, the 633 is still an AMAZING wing, but in waves over 5-6 feet. When waves are close to overhead, the 633 comes to life and blows away the 150. On big waves, the 633 can keep a slower, more controlled speed when down the line. The stoke during these rides is just insane. As an added bonus, the 633 also keeps a more stable ride in white water. In light winds, the 633 has a 2-3 knot lower end than the Lift 150 (and even Lift 170) and has become my foil of choice when winds are below 10 knots. I modded the 633 rear stabilizer with a 2mm riser to help shift weight from front. When waves are less than 4-5 feet, however, I'll always go for the 150.

I still LOVE both foils, but now, for different purposes. The above goes contrary to what many of you said about the 633, but I do believe, if you give 150 a good chance, you may agree as well. Wanted to throw it out there for you to discuss.

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby grigorib » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:33 pm

150 is smaller than 633 by area. It’s even smaller than 683S so comparison is not exactly on the same level.

I’d get rid of 150 just because of Lift quality issues. Over and over again strangest things happen in my sight of Lift - cracking 2014 masts, peeling plywood in the board mast plate base, now a thread about water in a mast and last not least a machined mast slot in my 2013 fuselage. Machined through fiber which is not far from drilling a hole in optical cable for attachment purpose.

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pikovsg
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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby pikovsg » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:40 pm

grigorib wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:33 pm
150 is smaller than 633 by area. It’s even smaller than 683S so comparison is not exactly on the same level.

I’d get rid of 150 just because of Lift quality issues. Over and over again strangest things happen in my sight of Lift - cracking 2014 masts, peeling plywood in the board mast plate base, now a thread about water in a mast and last not least a machined mast slot in my 2013 fuselage. Machined through fiber which is not far from drilling a hole in optical cable for attachment purpose.
Agreed, Lift 2016 and earlier foils were no good. 2017 and up is a totally different story. I would get the 150 again in an instant if something happened to it.

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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s/633 wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby grigorib » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:51 pm

pikovsg wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:40 pm
...I would get the 150 again in an instant if something happened to it.
My plan is to stick to Moses modularity. 683S is 20% smaller wing than 633 and thinner if I'm not mistaken. Worth trying.

Funny but I recently rode my 2013 Lift too expecting sale of 633 to a friend and debating what's my plan for the wings I want to keep.

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby mmac » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:06 am

:thumb: Love my 2018 Lift 150, great kitefoil for ocean conditions. After a long season of use, mine has been super durable with no issues. I've owned other carbon foils and this one is the most fun by far.

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby airsurfer » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:35 am

I only ride in the ocean and had the lift 150 for 6 months agree it was a good improvement over my previous lift foils but doesn't even come close to the 633 let alone the 683 in any aspect. 150 was noisy even when sanded and fillered lots of drag not well balanced IMO and poor quality construction. I have hundreds of hours on the 633 now and agree the 633 can be limiting for certain kiting conditions and tricks it was designed as a sup wing after all. The 683 is better than both it has as much lift can go as slow but with much less drag it can can handle bigger waves and downwind speed much better it has great accelaration and glide compared with 633 and higher upwind angles and top speed when you want it. The only advantages i found with 633 is pumping and ultra light wind and strapless waterstarts are easier so IMO try your 683 again you'll prob sell your 150

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:30 am

I have had some similar experiences, with other wings though, but still...

At first loving the "Surf" wing (aka one like the 633) and only riding this one in almost everything at first for many months, with mini kites - it felt great!

Now, still loving the big and narrow turning wing (1200 cm2), but often using a "normal" big wave wing again (close to 800 cm2).

The latter dont feel small like the 600 cm2 wings we used earlier, and it can ride really slow, but most importantly, it turns even faster (more lively) and best of all is the effortless carving glide and speed which is better and it gives you a smoother ride so to speak, difficult to explain but others who have experienced similar knows what I mean.

So if speaking in general, I have found joy and advantages with the big wave wings, a tad smaller than the SUP/Surf wings but still really big :thumb:

The "honeymoon" days are over, and maybe reality is that big wave wings are even better in many conditions, and occasionally the Surf style huge wings are cool too :D

Always good to explore and find the limits where you dont find it much good anymore (in specific conditions, of course) :D

8) PF

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby pitbulldoug » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:00 pm

pikovsg wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:15 pm
I've been swooned and in blissful honeymoon with 633 ever since it came out and got rave reviews on this forum.

However, many of you are going to disagree with what's about to come next.

One day I went down into the basement and remembered my Lift 150, a wing that has been gathering dust down there ever since the introduction of the 633. I put the Lift up for sale a bit earlier. Not sure why, but for the sake of "science" I decided to compare the two wings that day. Well, one session turned into two, then three, four, five, etc, etc. Now, after five months of comparing, I'm completely blown away. The 150 is a MUCH better foil for waves and freestyle. It's not even a contest. It's more carvy on flat water and waves, is more weight-balanced, is lighter, faster, boosts better, tacks better, and just results in a much bigger stoke than 633.

That said, the 633 is still an AMAZING wing, but in waves over 5-6 feet. When waves are close to overhead, the 633 comes to life and blows away the 150. On big waves, the 633 can keep a slower, more controlled speed when down the line. The stoke during these rides is just insane. As an added bonus, the 633 also keeps a more stable ride in white water. In light winds, the 633 has a 2-3 knot lower end than the Lift 150 (and even Lift 170) and has become my foil of choice when winds are below 10 knots. I modded the 633 rear stabilizer with a 2mm riser to help shift weight from front. When waves are less than 4-5 feet, however, I'll always go for the 150.

I still LOVE both foils, but now, for different purposes. The above goes contrary to what many of you said about the 633, but I do believe, if you give 150 a good chance, you may agree as well. Wanted to throw it out there for you to discuss.
You should have a go in the 170 a step up in performance from the 150, as IMO best wing out there for waves and free ride, tried many and had the moses too very nice build quality for the moses must say, but ended up selling in favor of 170 and 36"&32" mast depending on conditions, I also sold my 150 too in favor of the 170 the only issue with the mhl is for traveling with 1pc wing fuse combo but the performance of this just really kicks ass.just need to stuff it in good size duffle bag when traveling,Id definately try the 170 if you like the 150👍

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby neilhapgood » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:32 pm

airsurfer wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:35 am
I only ride in the ocean and had the lift 150 for 6 months agree it was a good improvement over my previous lift foils but doesn't even come close to the 633 let alone the 683 in any aspect. 150 was noisy even when sanded and fillered lots of drag not well balanced IMO and poor quality construction. I have hundreds of hours on the 633 now and agree the 633 can be limiting for certain kiting conditions and tricks it was designed as a sup wing after all. The 683 is better than both it has as much lift can go as slow but with much less drag it can can handle bigger waves and downwind speed much better it has great accelaration and glide compared with 633 and higher upwind angles and top speed when you want it. The only advantages i found with 633 is pumping and ultra light wind and strapless waterstarts are easier so IMO try your 683 again you'll prob sell your 150

Anyone know if the 683 will work on the T40 board as apparently the 633 needed foot straps further froward than the T40 would allow? Thanks

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Re: Ultimate freestyle/wave foil - Moses 633 vs. Lift 150 (long-term)

Postby Frank Rosin » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:31 pm

It can work if you shim the stabilizer.
Got shims available.
https://instagram.com/p/BmVtRgRAmtK/

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