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Moses SABfoil

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Sfollis
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Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:34 am
Local Beach: Ainsdale
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach FUE
Style: Foil board
Gear: Ozone and Moses
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Sfollis » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:35 pm

I can confirm the following:
720 with 425 got me up to 30.5 Knots
683 with 485 is 27.5
633 with 485 is 26

If you are unable to consistently reach 25 knots on a 633 I wouldn’t bother trying the 720. For me the the 683 is too similar to the 633 but loses >3 knots to the bottom end so wouldn’t recommend it.

I too was lucky to have Anthony (LevaloisFilms) film me on my 633 in 8-10 knots of wind.

These users thanked the author Sfollis for the post (total 2):
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dave1986
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Posts: 771
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Kiting since: 2001
Weight: 85kg
Local Beach: Llangennith
Style: Twintip & hydrofoil
Gear: Naish Pivots 6m, 7m, 9m
Naish Boxer 12m
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby dave1986 » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:58 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:32 am
Which ones? We discus here that new Moses carbon surf mast is much stiffer than old "normal and current" carbon kite one. Still not as stiff as they ALU but almost.
From this you can extrapolate that SS ALU is about same as Moses ALU. Almost all alu mast are stiffer than carbon - except maybe Alpine which was quite weight optimized /but still stiffer than moses kite carbon/. ALU components need good connecting interfaces which is where they differ most. But most current ones have this sorted. And again many people riding very soft Moses kite mast and they are happy. I think you feel differences if your riding is very physical - pumping and hard carving /which is also pumping but in different plane/

And maybe you feel differences from just riding very stiff setup for some time and then softer mast will be problem for you :)
Thanks for the info. I was mostly interested to know the difference between the new stiffer Moses 72cm and 82cm carbon masts and the alternative of using a much cheaper Slingshot aluminium mast with the slingshot adaptor.

If the Slingshot aluminium masts will be even stiffer than the new Moses carbon then I will probably just buy the cheaper slingshot aluminium mast even though it's heavier.

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tkaraszewski
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby tkaraszewski » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:25 pm

Sfollis wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:35 pm
I can confirm the following:
720 with 425 got me up to 30.5 Knots
683 with 485 is 27.5
633 with 485 is 26

If you are unable to consistently reach 25 knots on a 633 I wouldn’t bother trying the 720. For me the the 683 is too similar to the 633 but loses >3 knots to the bottom end so wouldn’t recommend it.

I too was lucky to have Anthony (LevaloisFilms) film me on my 633 in 8-10 knots of wind.

This says the top speed you were able to achieve on the 720 is only 11% faster than on the 683. Is that correct? Doesn't seem like much of a difference for a pretty significantly different wing.

dave1986
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Weight: 85kg
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby dave1986 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:54 pm

tkaraszewski wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:25 pm
This says the top speed you were able to achieve on the 720 is only 11% faster than on the 683. Is that correct? Doesn't seem like much of a difference for a pretty significantly different wing.
Sounds about right. The 720 is a significantly different shape to the 683/633, but it retains most the low-end speed. Most other wings that are capable of going above 30 knots will stall at lower speeds.

airsurfer
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby airsurfer » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:43 am

The 720 is fast what makes it great and much better than 633 and 683 is glide upwind ability stability low drag and acceleration without giving up much low end (depending on the stabilizer you choose) So far for me it's the wing I've been waiting for Moses to make. I've owned all of the Moses wings except the Havok front wing.

cwood
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Moses Hydrofoil
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:17 am

Sfollis wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:35 pm
I can confirm the following:
720 with 425 got me up to 30.5 Knots
683 with 485 is 27.5
633 with 485 is 26

If you are unable to consistently reach 25 knots on a 633 I wouldn’t bother trying the 720. For me the the 683 is too similar to the 633 but loses >3 knots to the bottom end so wouldn’t recommend it.

I too was lucky to have Anthony (LevaloisFilms) film me on my 633 in 8-10 knots of wind.

Beautiful video and riding

Foil
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Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 91kg
Local Beach: New Brighton near Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide deep lagoon
and regular at Rhosneigr and Newbrough on Anglesey
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough, Blackrock sands
lake Como (Italy) El Medano
Style: kite foiler since 2017 Ttip since 2000
Gear: My rule to gear choice is "IF IT DONT BOOST ITS NO USE"
Groove Skates 110cm 2022 editions
kraken mast systems 103k and 93k.
Kraken fuse 703k
Duotone SLS Evo's -- 11mtr/9mtr/7mtr/6mtr/ 4mtr RRD.
Duotone 2022 click bars x2,my own custom made lines fitted,
(modified lines now available for the flite99 shod duotone bars)

Bar lines made up to any length in a choice of strengths, power lines, trim lines, pigtails, leader lines, bridal lines, elasticated lines, I make and fit them all, free fit and tune service,
quick turnaround,drop me a message, find me on messenger, Colin Moore.
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Foil » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:07 am

airsurfer wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:43 am
The 720 is fast what makes it great and much better than 633 and 683 is glide upwind ability stability low drag and acceleration without giving up much low end (depending on the stabilizer you choose) So far for me it's the wing I've been waiting for Moses to make. I've owned all of the Moses wings except the Havok front wing.
I have used Steves 720 set up (Sfollis) above (that is his name in real life you know! Steve Follis, great car number plate I am thinking)
anyways I have used his set up on around 5 occasions now, and wanted to like as it is so fast, and i could not really detect much if any any loss of lift, but, and this was the decider for me, It was hard work for me to keep it running fast, the effort required to keep things smooth and stable was for me too much,
both feet strapped down was important to be able to push for speed and stability, i concluded the wing was better than me, maybe next year i will like it more,
but for now my 633 is my friend for life,
jumping off the 720 and straight back on the 633 was joyous :roll:
however steve loves his set up, which he did have to grow into (tuning the stab) to master it, but he is 20 years younger than me, a lot lot fitter and naturally a true athlete, suited much more to the 720,
maybe if I could do race turns I would have a different views on its suitability for my "style" :thumb:
These users thanked the author Foil for the post:
rolfjoosten (Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:17 pm)
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grigorib
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Posts: 4147
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 3/5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Flysurfer 2cool 6m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:44 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:07 am
I have used Steves 720 set up (Sfollis) above (that is his name in real life you know! Steve Follis, great car number plate I am thinking)
anyways I have used his set up on around 5 occasions now, and wanted to like as it is so fast, and i could not really detect much if any any loss of lift, but, and this was the decider for me, It was hard work for me to keep it running fast, the effort required to keep things smooth and stable was for me too much,
both feet strapped down was important to be able to push for speed and stability, i concluded the wing was better than me, maybe next year i will like it more,
but for now my 633 is my friend for life,
jumping off the 720 and straight back on the 633 was joyous :roll:
however steve loves his set up, which he did have to grow into (tuning the stab) to master it, but he is 20 years younger than me, a lot lot fitter and naturally a true athlete, suited much more to the 720,
maybe if I could do race turns I would have a different views on its suitability for my "style" :thumb:
Which stabilizer did you use with 720?

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 91kg
Local Beach: New Brighton near Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide deep lagoon
and regular at Rhosneigr and Newbrough on Anglesey
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough, Blackrock sands
lake Como (Italy) El Medano
Style: kite foiler since 2017 Ttip since 2000
Gear: My rule to gear choice is "IF IT DONT BOOST ITS NO USE"
Groove Skates 110cm 2022 editions
kraken mast systems 103k and 93k.
Kraken fuse 703k
Duotone SLS Evo's -- 11mtr/9mtr/7mtr/6mtr/ 4mtr RRD.
Duotone 2022 click bars x2,my own custom made lines fitted,
(modified lines now available for the flite99 shod duotone bars)

Bar lines made up to any length in a choice of strengths, power lines, trim lines, pigtails, leader lines, bridal lines, elasticated lines, I make and fit them all, free fit and tune service,
quick turnaround,drop me a message, find me on messenger, Colin Moore.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 324 times

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Foil » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:43 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:44 pm
Foil wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:07 am
I have used Steves 720 set up (Sfollis) above (that is his name in real life you know! Steve Follis, great car number plate I am thinking)
anyways I have used his set up on around 5 occasions now, and wanted to like as it is so fast, and i could not really detect much if any any loss of lift, but, and this was the decider for me, It was hard work for me to keep it running fast, the effort required to keep things smooth and stable was for me too much,
both feet strapped down was important to be able to push for speed and stability, i concluded the wing was better than me, maybe next year i will like it more,
but for now my 633 is my friend for life,
jumping off the 720 and straight back on the 633 was joyous :roll:
however steve loves his set up, which he did have to grow into (tuning the stab) to master it, but he is 20 years younger than me, a lot lot fitter and naturally a true athlete, suited much more to the 720,
maybe if I could do race turns I would have a different views on its suitability for my "style" :thumb:
Which stabilizer did you use with 720?
good point, i have tried a few different combinations of shims and I think 2 different stabilizers, the 483 was one, and I think I tried the 450 as well but not sure now, steve has a few rear stabs but i cant be sure if i did try that one.

grigorib
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Posts: 4147
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 3/5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Flysurfer 2cool 6m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
.
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:21 pm

483 and shimmed 450 ride quite similarly. It’s the 325 which did huge difference for me lacking pitch stability with 720

I’m stoked to try 695/425 combo


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