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Moses 2019-2020

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cwood
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:11 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 pm
I've got my Moses 679/710/483 set with 82cm mast today. Pretty exciting as I recall Jimmy was talking about 80cm mast this time last year and finally it became available.
So here it comes, component by component

2020 82cm mast
It's an awesome length to ride shallow waters and for folks like me who feel that 71cm is too short but 91cm is catching bottom in OBX/SPI - this one I wanted for a while. As reported previously it's designed sturdier and I realized quickly why so - the tapering on the mast is not gradual but instead the mast thickness changes very little throughout mast length and it gets thinner only last 4" on the bottom (pic below). Even being thicker in the middle it still weigh almost proportionally (71cm 2.7 lbs, 82cm 3.16 lbs, 91cm 3.4 lbs).
Once I saw a pair of extra mount holes I got excited thinking that it would help all the folks who have 140mm mount hole spacing on their boards (for aluminum masts) and then I measured that spacing on 82cm mast is 137mm, which is out of world of mechanical engineering I studied. I guess a bright side of that is that you can move the mast more forward, and ride 590 with 2020 Micro comfortably. Beats me, I have no clue why another nonstandard thing needed to be introduced.
But overall - very good mast and I like it.

P.S. came home and ran comparison of mast position (fuselage tip against the wall) and found out that 82cm mast positions fuselage 30mm forward compared to 91cm. The 105cm mast positions fuselage 10mm back of 91cm mast. The 91cm and 105cm mast are slightly angled back, while 82cm is just straight perpendicular to the mast plate.

2020 679 wing
as everyone knows the numbers on Moses wings/stabilizers indicate wingspan in millimeters. Wingspan of 679 wing is 686mm. I know. I measured several times on both sides with same tape I used yesterday to measure 695 wing to match specs. Well, at least confusion of 683s vs 683 is past us. The wing is pretty and I wish I had my 683s to compare it to but it's in Cape Town now being demoed by a friend. Certainly the wing is slightly lighter than 683s because my 683s/710/450 weigh 4.2lbs and 679/710/450 3.9 lbs (710/450 is same weight in both cases). As it came 679/710/483 is 3.8 lbs, finally lighter than 633/749/483 which was 4.0 lbs in its latest/lightest version
683s has been my "wing of 2019" and I sold the 633 promptly after getting 683s. 679 will certainly serve well and it will get its use in OBX where seaweeds would mess with riding a wing like 695. I hope to pair it with thinner 425 stabilizer and get a stunning combination. Will report on that once I have feedback.

I didn't notice any changes on 483 stabilizer and 710 fuselage. Clean and pretty.
A lithium grease tube supplied with set is itty bitty now and there are no M6 t-nuts supplied. The wooden plates holding mast in place were attached by wood screws and zinc plated hex head bolts. Which means no extra T30 M6 bolts either (and it's not a problem).

See some pics below and get yours to get ready to rock for the season to come :)
I spend about 10 mins comparing the 679 which I bought and the 683 in the store. They are (without using calipers) identical. I find it hard to believe they will perform anything but identical.
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southbound
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby southbound » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:07 pm

Does anyone know anything about the Moses T35 board that is highlighted in the 2020 catalog?
https://moseshydrofoil.com/storage/down ... _rev01.pdf
I'm curious if it is replacing the T22 which I did not see in the catalog. I hope to be getting a 633 setup in the next few months and am looking at board options. I have done demo's of the 633 with both the T22 and T38 and liked the T22 better for strapless riding.
Thanks
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Foil (Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:12 am)
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grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 679/483 wingsets, Tim's 36" woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot RPM 11m 2018 like new $600, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:26 pm

.

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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby omg » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am

Does the F749 fuselage which I use take 790 and 873 wings and does it differ somehow from the 710 fuselage currently associated with the mentioned wings, please?

Second question; still wondering also abt the 790 and 873 wings; some say they didn't improve their lowend over the 633, but how can they not if you can pump them better than 633, hence I would assume that they come up from the water with less pull from the kite?

cwood
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:05 pm

omg wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am
Does the F749 fuselage which I use take 790 and 873 wings and does it differ somehow from the 710 fuselage currently associated with the mentioned wings, please?

Second question; still wondering also abt the 790 and 873 wings; some say they didn't improve their lowend over the 633, but how can they not if you can pump them better than 633, hence I would assume that they come up from the water with less pull from the kite?
Hey, the 749 was the original surf / SUP fuselage. The newer 710 is a bit shorter and the mast mount point is a bit closer to the front wing mount. I assumed it would make some ride dynamics difference in controlling the larger lift when kiting....does not. So it might just be a bit more responsive in pitch and as a result in laid over carving.

With respect to 790, as we are experimenting with large wings, a buddy ordered the 790 and I went to 679. 679 is not far from 633, perhaps a titch faster and a bit more sporty and nicer to land from boost. I have not ridden the 790 (will in Cuba in 2 weeks back to back with 679) but his report is that it is very extreme in his view in kiting....He had ordered a different variation of his prior custom board and moved the tracks back significantly and strap positions with more spots forward (from a normal kite wing config) and still had to shim the mast to fuse a bit to get balanced flight!

My opinion, there will be diminishing returns of larger and larger wings when kiting. The SUP and Surf wings are meant to be self propelled, carry much more nose weight of board, maybe even paddle....while with kiting we have power and lighter board and no paddle etc. If you are a strap rider and are prepared to deal with the center of gravity issues....or strapless with unlimited stance options...and favor a really small kite to nudge you along then they might be a good choice. I think if you like to ride strapped and feel powered the lift might just be too hard to manage. This is from his first experiences and our discussions...will report back when I have ridden myself if I can even get it to work on my tracks and strap locations. I am skeptical given him having added about 5 inches of CG change and still having to shim.

Just my thoughts...others more experienced than I with the monster wings might put me in my place
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grigorib
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Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 679/483 wingsets, Tim's 36" woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot RPM 11m 2018 like new $600, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:29 pm

633 wing already goes so slow that it almost impossible to stall it. Even when stalling it kind of parachutes down because of the area. Imagine that making wings thicker and larger only slows them down and is less applicable to kiting.
749 fuselage rides the same as 710. Position of the mast is proportionally same between the wing and the stabilizer on both - even though mast is closer to the wing on 710, the stabilizer is also further closer to the mast.
Last edited by grigorib on Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby omg » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm

Thanks guys. I was just thinking about I would enjoy something with more pumping ability for staying on the very small swell - could be that I'm way too optimistic abt the limits of the wings. Also thought that by buying a bigger wing my low end of the Peak4 5m would improve. However, although I ride strapless with Moses T22 (109cm) board, I am now having second thoughts abt the front foot pressure needed to balance the wing, more so if your friend needed to shim it. Hmm...

One further question; I have the "old Fluente 91 or 93cm mast" ie. the curved one and not the current, the straight one, and front 633 and back wing is 483. And for some reason this combination very abruptly looses control, ie. spins. It typically happens when I'm riding upwind, even when not pressuring that much. What can affect to this? It's very annoying to ride with speed and then something just kinda pulls in a fraction of second the whole system under your feet and you crash down.

grigorib
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Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 679/483 wingsets, Tim's 36" woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot RPM 11m 2018 like new $600, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:52 pm

790/450 would be more surfy than 633/483

grigorib
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Posts: 2168
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 679/483 wingsets, Tim's 36" woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot RPM 11m 2018 like new $600, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:57 pm

southbound wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:07 pm
... in the 2020 catalog?
https://moseshydrofoil.com/storage/down ... _rev01.pdf
...
Interesting that in windfoil section there’s 671 wing looking just like and matching area of 670 race wing, but it must have countersink holes done on other side so it fits 647/1100 fuselages (for some reason 1100 fuselage is listed as 1150). It’s not on website (yet?) but brings hope to get a fun 2020 race wing for existing kite fuselage.
I like idea of 671+695 and 425 stabilizer combo
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cwood
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:27 pm

omg wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
Thanks guys. I was just thinking about I would enjoy something with more pumping ability for staying on the very small swell - could be that I'm way too optimistic abt the limits of the wings. Also thought that by buying a bigger wing my low end of the Peak4 5m would improve. However, although I ride strapless with Moses T22 (109cm) board, I am now having second thoughts abt the front foot pressure needed to balance the wing, more so if your friend needed to shim it. Hmm...

One further question; I have the "old Fluente 91 or 93cm mast" ie. the curved one and not the current, the straight one, and front 633 and back wing is 483. And for some reason this combination very abruptly looses control, ie. spins. It typically happens when I'm riding upwind, even when not pressuring that much. What can affect to this? It's very annoying to ride with speed and then something just kinda pulls in a fraction of second the whole system under your feet and you crash down.
Dude.....I had the original curved mast Silente......learned on it, then moved on to 101 and other wings....broke a mast and had to dig out the Silente while I waited for warranty replacement. The thing was almost unridable....as a more competent foiler, any load of any magnitude had that nasty outcome. I think its the mast ventilating....I tried cleaning it up and could never make it any better....if I did anything other than lazy riding it would ventilate violently as soon as you pushed up wind with any moderate aggression. Not sure if its the curve or what but I sold it....not viable even as a backup for my riding. I'd rather be on a vibrating g10 and aluminum rig than that thing.
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