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Moses SABfoil

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grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4147
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 3/5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Flysurfer 2cool 6m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:00 pm

Don’t you guys find it inconvenient to use a large/bulky surf fuselage for kite wings?

leeuwen
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:16 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Anything in NL
Style: Foiling around
Gear: KauperXT 11M Falcon
Ocean Rodeo aluula roam 10m / HL Crave 8m/6m
Slingshot ghost 4M
Sabfoil 1350L,633,699,671/ 83-103 kraken mast / Groove Skate L + Radical / Sabfoil T35
Lieuwe Shotgun
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby leeuwen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:43 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:00 pm
Don’t you guys find it inconvenient to use a large/bulky surf fuselage for kite wings?
I own both. It barely makes a difference to be honest.
It’s about 5cm longer and a it’s a little wider at some points.
In weight it doesn’t really add much, at least not noticeable when I pick it up.
So IMHO it’s all about what’s wings you want. Fuselage size doesn’t really matter significantly.

Lamilu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:42 pm
Kiting since: 1998
Weight: 110kg
Local Beach: Cabo Frio, Cumbuco
Style: Wave/foil
Gear: Duotone Neo 8, Rebel 7 and 9, Chrono 11
Armstrong M800 and board
Brand Affiliation: None
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby Lamilu » Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:57 am

Qiter wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:20 pm
Lamilu wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:21 pm
Could someone please compare for kiting purpose only…
W799 vs W633
Early launch…
Top speed…
I currently ride the 799 for kiting and have ridden the 633 and other Moses wings for many years. The 799 is a significant step forward, it is relatively fast for its size, turns well while still having good stability on all axis. The choice of stabiliser will impact its characteristics big time, use the small 399 stab and its "skaty", with a bigger stabiliser like the 483, it becomes even more stable. The 450 makes it VERY stable but it becomes draggy and slow.

Overall, the 799 is now my go-to wing for 90% of the kiting days. Only in very light winds I use the 790, which is a different kind of wing, much slower due to larger surface area (1500cm) and thickness but slightly better low end.
I hope this helps!
How much do you weight?
Fast for its size…means faster than 633….as fast as 679?
What do you do with it…lakes? Ocean? Waves?
what is your local spot?
Thanks a lot…
I find this 799 very interesting in theory and shape…

sonny2727
Frequent Poster
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:21 pm
Favorite Beaches: St Kilda
Gear: Duotone,Kauper, Ozone, Shinn, Flysurfer, Moses, Axis,Slingshot
Reo,Edge,Rebel,R1,
Sonic,Peak4,Soul,
Falcon
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Location: Melbourne
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby sonny2727 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:27 am

leeuwen wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:43 pm
grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:00 pm
Don’t you guys find it inconvenient to use a large/bulky surf fuselage for kite wings?
I own both. It barely makes a difference to be honest.
It’s about 5cm longer and a it’s a little wider at some points.
In weight it doesn’t really add much, at least not noticeable when I pick it up.
So IMHO it’s all about what’s wings you want. Fuselage size doesn’t really matter significantly.
100% agree with leeuwen...I'm not boosting with 710/633 combo so it doesn't matter ..what matters most is having the best wing for the conditions and quick and easy changing of the wing and stab.. in this respect having a separate surf wing/fuse/stab makes it easier than changing the front wing and stab as I change the whole thing with mast to fuse 2 screws ...often you have different stabs for racing so my 647 stays with the best race stab. If you want to have anything extra, its the fuse as it's the cheapest and most durable part so no brainer to have 2

Qiter
Medium Poster
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:17 pm
Gear: Mostly foil
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby Qiter » Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:59 pm

Lamilu wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:57 am
Qiter wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:20 pm
Lamilu wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:21 pm
Could someone please compare for kiting purpose only…
W799 vs W633
Early launch…
Top speed…
I currently ride the 799 for kiting and have ridden the 633 and other Moses wings for many years. The 799 is a significant step forward, it is relatively fast for its size, turns well while still having good stability on all axis. The choice of stabiliser will impact its characteristics big time, use the small 399 stab and its "skaty", with a bigger stabiliser like the 483, it becomes even more stable. The 450 makes it VERY stable but it becomes draggy and slow.

Overall, the 799 is now my go-to wing for 90% of the kiting days. Only in very light winds I use the 790, which is a different kind of wing, much slower due to larger surface area (1500cm) and thickness but slightly better low end.
I hope this helps!
How much do you weight?
Fast for its size…means faster than 633….as fast as 679?
What do you do with it…lakes? Ocean? Waves?
what is your local spot?
Thanks a lot…
I find this 799 very interesting in theory and shape…
I weigh 90kg, mostly ride flat water in a low wind spot (most days between 9 and 15 kn).
The 799 is faster than the 633 for sure when using the same stabiliser, I reach similar speeds than with the 679 but its more stable.
I am an advanced foiler (at least my peers consider me as one...) doing strapless foil freestyle.

Lamilu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:42 pm
Kiting since: 1998
Weight: 110kg
Local Beach: Cabo Frio, Cumbuco
Style: Wave/foil
Gear: Duotone Neo 8, Rebel 7 and 9, Chrono 11
Armstrong M800 and board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 35 times
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby Lamilu » Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:39 pm

Does anybody know what this is and how it works?
Pictures?
https://www.mackiteboarding.com/moses-f ... ter-plate/

Kite fuselage with surf wings?

Lamilu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:42 pm
Kiting since: 1998
Weight: 110kg
Local Beach: Cabo Frio, Cumbuco
Style: Wave/foil
Gear: Duotone Neo 8, Rebel 7 and 9, Chrono 11
Armstrong M800 and board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby Lamilu » Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:33 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:00 pm
Don’t you guys find it inconvenient to use a large/bulky surf fuselage for kite wings?
I myself think the surf stabilizer compromises Moses total “quality”…
It is weight on the tip of the arm when carrying…
Why does it have to be so bulky and heavy?
I gave up buying W679 in favor of W695 mainly because of the fuselage, even though my level points more to W679/633.
Aluminium mast with carbon wings and fuselage, now common to a lot of brands…to me makes more sense…at least to carry…
Moses brags about “all we do is carbon”…no excuse for heavy bulky cheap metal fuselages…
Its a premuim brand.
Please offer titanium or carbon alternatives…
:thumb:
These users thanked the author Lamilu for the post:
grigorib (Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:00 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

Qiter
Medium Poster
Posts: 167
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby Qiter » Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:57 pm

Lamilu wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:33 pm
grigorib wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:00 pm
Don’t you guys find it inconvenient to use a large/bulky surf fuselage for kite wings?
I myself think the surf stabilizer compromises Moses total “quality”…
It is weight on the tip of the arm when carrying…
Why does it have to be so bulky and heavy?
I gave up buying W679 in favor of W695 mainly because of the fuselage, even though my level points more to W679/633.
Aluminium mast with carbon wings and fuselage, now common to a lot of brands…to me makes more sense…at least to carry…
Moses brags about “all we do is carbon”…no excuse for heavy bulky cheap metal fuselages…
Its a premuim brand.
Please offer titanium or carbon alternatives…
:thumb:
There are carbon fuselages that fit SAB foil/ Moses on the market, they are basically carbon copies (haha) of the original aluminum fuselages. Usually built by small brands/ individuals.
I have one of those, which weighs less than half of the Aluminum original but after riding it a few times, I went back to the original. (NB: The quality of the carbon fuse that I bought is exceptional).

The main reason going back is that the center of gravity of the system foil/ rider changes BIG time. The center of gravity of the whole system with the lighter fuselage is much further up. Many foil freestyle maneuvers that require quite a bit of carving were "off", as my motor patterns seem to have been dialed in on a lower center of gravity. I was hoping that I get used to it, but unfortunately did not, so I changed back to the heavy aluminum keel :-)
The lighter fuselage might be helpful in really light winds, I will check this out as soon as the conditions are right, but for "normal" 8-12kn conditions, it was not for me :-)
These users thanked the author Qiter for the post:
grigorib (Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:00 pm)
Rating: 3.03%

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4147
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 3/5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Flysurfer 2cool 6m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 461 times
Been thanked: 691 times

Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:02 pm

Lighter, compact 647 fuselage was also a part of my move off 683s(679) to 695. And I still ride 647 fuselage with race 600 sq.cm, freerride 730 sq.cm and lightwind 1200 sq.cm wings
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grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4147
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 3/5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Flysurfer 2cool 6m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 461 times
Been thanked: 691 times

Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021-2022 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:30 pm



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