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Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

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grandeand
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grandeand » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:54 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:22 pm
grandeand wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:21 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:52 am


New design. Based off the S370. Completely flat, no winglets. Surf Stab.

--
Gunnar
why, why, why .... they call it 425 but it has a different design than the 425. it was better to give it a different name. moreover, many of us asked Jimmy for the possibility of redoing the 425 a few years ago.
Maybe you should try it first. It might just do exactly what you want it to.

--
Gunnar
hi Gunnar, thanks for the advice.
he will try to try it before buying it.
now Moses and sabfoil in recent years has clogged the market with dozens of products including front wings, stabilizers and fuselages.
certainly gives more choice but confuses the ideas especially if you do not have the opportunity to try it first.
I would like to try the old 425.

grigorib
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Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:05 pm

grandeand wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:54 pm

I would like to try the old 425.
425 is the best stabilizer ever made by Moses in my opinion and I met many people who are aligned on the same though
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a99 (Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:19 pm)
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grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:54 pm

Compatibility list updated adding Phantasm wings to surf fuselage options
viewtopic.php?p=1075851#p1075851

Rodney from Arizona asked me on Event Site how he can further improve speed of his 683s kitefoil setup on surf fuselage and I talked that discontinued 720 wing might be slight improvement, while still being a thick wing. I thought about Stringy’s adapter allowing kite wings being mounted onto surf fuselage, talked about switching to kite fuselage maybe and then it struck me that Brandon riding Phantasm 730 flies pretty fast and it’s same wing-fuselage connection.
Bottom line - list updated.

grigorib
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Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:00 am

New year, new wings
You might want to know how I got here and it certainly looks like I’m “having a foil problem”, so here’s some reasoning for others who have same problem to get excited and keep going in this beautiful addiction.

- 425 race stabilizer is the best stabilizer I ever ridden and probably or certainly the best Moses ever produced. Makes any other Moses kite stabilizer redundant
- 230 sq.cm race stabilizer is for times when I need another 425 but don’t have one. Par with 420/421.
- 310 sq.cm lightwind stabilizer makes it easy for folks who are learning, adds lowend to any wing and useful for extreme lightwind. Same area as 483/450 but is thinner, doesn’t need to be shimmed and winglets are pointed up preventing wingtip damage

- 600 sq.cm thin race wing on the bottom is for lightning fast cruising/top speeds. “The need for speed”’wing. I liked it more than 637 I used to have, probably because I needed that extra area. Moses race wings do great too.
- 800 windfoil race wing works for kiting just fine and actually great. At 840 sq.cm it allows decent lowend yet with nice top end too. Replaced 695 for me. The 695 replaced 683s/679. 683s replaced 633. 633 added lowend I was missing a lot on 590. 590 was a bit larger and quite better than 548. 548 was my attempt to get a bit more lowend than 545 (558). Bringing it all up to say that I needed 800 wing back in 2017 and been asking Moses and Slingshot for something like that since then.
- 860 so.cm wing above the 800 rocks in shedding off seaweed strains for OBX riding specifically. It’s large enough to allow nice lowend and thin enough to have higher cruising speed. Sticks out a bit in front of the fuselage, quite some extra area between mount and the the fuselage-mast bolts. Been waiting and asking for this wing for quite a while too
- 730 sq.cm freeride wing is best described by my friend Malcolm as “has a look of 590 after winter’s worth of Snowdrift Porters”. Not as fast as 800 or 695 because of a bit of extra thickness but goes up to 28.5 mph, rides stable and allows 800-amount of lowend and slightly lower speed needed in waves. Also importantly, it gets moved around by churny water way less than 800 does and is nice for more turbulent conditions
- 1200 sq.cm lightwind/wave wing is what I needed to get rid of heavy and unnecessary surf fuselage I had to have to ride larger 633/683s/679 wings. There are days when wind is around/below 10 knots and that’s when you need large wing. And again, ability to mount it onto same kite fuselage is priceless.

Three wings in the middle are heavily overlapping and are redundant amongst each other, but I’m having fun riding each of them at slightly different conditions. The race and lightwind wings have their unique features in what they can deliver while other wings can’t.
Attachments
58D6415F-C831-4790-999C-923ED1A10A73.jpeg
Last edited by grigorib on Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grigorib
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Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:11 pm

Back home and had to ride a “big kite” again. More than a bigger 7m kite I needed some extra speed/glide to fly through wind holes/lulls.
Mounted 800 wing again and I thought seagulls were celebrating because I felt I was cutting plenty of slow fish staying too close to the surface. Motorboats were generating some food for them too and major turbulence for HA wing. Reminded me of the reason why I wanted thicker lower aspect 730

JoseTumaco
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Favorite Beaches: Colombia Santa Lucía
Colombia Cabo de la Vela
Style: Foil and TT
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby JoseTumaco » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:34 am

Thanks a lot @grigorib, I really appreciate your sharing. I am thinking in a new wing, already have 679,550 and w600. Like them all.
I am looking for something not so slow as 679, and not so race as w600. Of course my w550 is in Between but I feel it more inestable, I prefer w600 than 550. Reading your post I would choose w800, do you agree? Can you sugest me others?
Thanks a lot :jump:
I kite at the Pacific coast in Colombia, border with Ecuador, but with no waves, with 12 M Soul and 91 mast. 73 kg. Usualy in 10/12 knots

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:28 am

JoseTumaco wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:34 am
…I am looking…
695 is bigger scaled-up 550 and I enjoyed that wing a lot so it would be one great option
I liked 800 better than 695 yet at your weight either would be a great choice. A lighter rider from Gorge could squeeze very decent performance from his 695 and being on 91cm mast it might be better option to choose.
Yet again - I preferred the 800

Whether you get 695 or 800 - make sure you ride those with a race stabilizer.
There’s Ozone rider in PNW who’s selling her 800 fairly cheap and there’s a guy in Seattle who has his like-new 695 for sale. PM me if you’d like any of their contacts
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JoseTumaco (Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:14 am)
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JoseTumaco
Medium Poster
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:28 pm
Kiting since: 2017
Weight: 75
Local Beach: Tumaco Colombia
Favorite Beaches: Colombia Santa Lucía
Colombia Cabo de la Vela
Style: Foil and TT
Gear: Soul 12m, Moses 679/600/550. Ozone Enduro 9 M. Dice 9m. Edge 11m. Hiperlink 12 M. TT 1.43.
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby JoseTumaco » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:16 am

Thanks, what if you compare w800 with w600, in wind over 12 knorts?

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:15 am

JoseTumaco wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:16 am
Thanks, what if you compare w800 with w600, in wind over 12 knorts?
I’d need a large ram air kite to ride a 600 in wind below white caps. With 800 I can do it with a 7m UFO.
Extra area/thickness add a lot of lowend, yet cruising speed will be lower. Imagine as if you got a lightwind race wing with 800

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9/13m, SST 4/5m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/91/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 70cm mast

Follow me on https://Instagram.com/grigorib7
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021 SABfoil

Postby grigorib » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:24 pm

Wingspan/AR data on above wings

1200 wave/lightwind wing 700mm, AR 4.1
730 freeride wing 560mm, AR 4.3
860 freeride wing 620mm, AR 4.5
800 840 sq.cm AR 7.6
600 freerace wing 650mm, AR 7.1


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