Moses SABfoil

[grigorib]

I'm not clear on this: Moses has two different aluminum fuselages listed on the their website. Are ALL Moses fuselages aluminum ... or do they have carbon ones?

All current fuselages are aluminum. All below fuselages are compatible with any given mast. Except aluminum setup seems to have dedicated mast/fuselage and I haven't had a chance to see it in details

647 kite (older compatible version is 680)
710 surf/SUP (older compatible version is 749)
900 windsurf (older version is 838 but it's not compatible with 900)

check this post for more details
viewtopic.php?p=1050132#p1050132

[grigorib]

New windsurf wing (and mast)!

[grigorib]

^^^^ Well....how about a similar 590 (or slightly larger area than 590) wing attachable to 710 fuselage?

[Flyboy]

I'm not clear on this: Moses has two different aluminum fuselages listed on the their website. Are ALL Moses fuselages aluminum ... or do they have carbon ones?

all current fuselages from Moses are aluminium( there is an carbon one piece mast and fuse moses from the early years)
being confused is very common with MOSES kit,
wings-
those with s after the number, ie 583s are surf, or kitesurf specific.
those with w or without either the s or w, are MAYBE more specific for windsurf use or paddle board style suitable.
but sometimes MOSES miss off the s or w, which makes it difficult to order the right wing for the right fuse, and/or the right fuse for the right wing

0 the fun I had trying to order the 790 wing for my kitesurf fuse, so easy to get confused and then get the wrong fuse or wing.

OK. Thanks!

I had kind of assumed that Moses' fuselages were carbon, as they are one of, if not THE, leading high-end hydrofoil producer. So, how heavy are the Moses fuselages, how heavy are the foils overall? Some other manufacturers elect to make the masts out of aluminum & the fuselages out of carbon, which sort of makes sense as having the lighter weight at the end of the foil decreases the leveraged weight more. On the other hand, it's not entirely clear to me that light weight is that critical an element of foil design.

Moses now has aluminum masts on offer, as does their partner Slingshot. The big advantage of aluminum masts is that it makes it inexpensive to have a range of mast lengths to suit different wings, conditions, styles of riding. What do y'all feel about the relative merits of carbon & aluminum in the fuselage/wings?

[grigorib]

OK. Thanks!

I had kind of assumed that Moses' fuselages were carbon, as they are one of, if not THE, leading high-end hydrofoil producer. So, how heavy are the Moses fuselages, how heavy are the foils overall? Some other manufacturers elect to make the masts out of aluminum & the fuselages out of carbon, which sort of makes sense as having the lighter weight at the end of the foil decreases the leveraged weight more. On the other hand, it's not entirely clear to me that light weight is that critical an element of foil design.

Moses now has aluminum masts on offer, as does their partner Slingshot. The big advantage of aluminum masts is that it makes it inexpensive to have a range of mast lengths to suit different wings, conditions, styles of riding. What do y'all feel about the relative merits of carbon & aluminum in the fuselage/wings?

Here go the weights.

Slingshot Ghost Whisper 545/680/328 (a.k.a. Moses 558/330) 2.6 lbs
Moses 548/680/325 2.6 lbs
Moses 590/680/328 2.9 lbs
Moses 590/647/330 2.9 lbs
Moses 633/749/483 4.8 lbs (early 2018 version of 633)
Slingshot 633/749/483 4.0 lbs (1815g)
Moses 683s/710/450 4.2 lbs (1857g)

Moses 749 fuselage 893g
Moses 710 fuselage 850g

Moses 71cm mast 2.7 lbs
Moses 91cm mast 3.4 lbs
Slingshot 91cm mast 3.3 lbs (1502g)
Slingshot 42” (105cm) mast 4.1 lbs
Slingshot Hoverglide 30” mast with pedestal and Stringy's adapter (total 80cm) 5.47 lbs (2480g)

Aluminum is pretty decent and not very heavy. My original MHL Lift "carbon" fuselage which only had a thin layer of carbon outside and was glass fiber on the inside was about as heavy and had mast slot machined through the fibers, just diminishing the strength. Levitaz stainless fuselage is pretty, but it's not superlight either and wing/mast/stabilizer connections while done elegantly are overly complicated.

You don't feel foil weight much while riding, but carrying a light one or jumping it makes hell of a difference.

[Flyboy]

OK. Thanks!

I had kind of assumed that Moses' fuselages were carbon, as they are one of, if not THE, leading high-end hydrofoil producer. So, how heavy are the Moses fuselages, how heavy are the foils overall? Some other manufacturers elect to make the masts out of aluminum & the fuselages out of carbon, which sort of makes sense as having the lighter weight at the end of the foil decreases the leveraged weight more. On the other hand, it's not entirely clear to me that light weight is that critical an element of foil design.

Moses now has aluminum masts on offer, as does their partner Slingshot. The big advantage of aluminum masts is that it makes it inexpensive to have a range of mast lengths to suit different wings, conditions, styles of riding. What do y'all feel about the relative merits of carbon & aluminum in the fuselage/wings?

Here go the weights.

Slingshot Ghost Whisper 545/680/328 (a.k.a. Moses 558/330) 2.6 lbs
Moses 548/680/325 2.6 lbs
Moses 590/680/328 2.9 lbs
Moses 590/647/330 2.9 lbs
Moses 633/749/483 4.8 lbs (early 2018 version of 633)
Slingshot 633/749/483 4.0 lbs (1815g)
Moses 683s/710/450 4.2 lbs (1857g)

Moses 749 fuselage 893g
Moses 710 fuselage 850g

Moses 71cm mast 2.7 lbs
Moses 91cm mast 3.4 lbs
Slingshot 91cm mast 3.3 lbs (1502g)
Slingshot 42” (105cm) mast 4.1 lbs
Slingshot Hoverglide 30” mast with pedestal and Stringy's adapter (total 80cm) 5.47 lbs (2480g)

Aluminum is pretty decent and not very heavy. My original MHL Lift "carbon" fuselage which only had a thin layer of carbon outside and was glass fiber on the inside was about as heavy and had mast slot machined through the fibers, just diminishing the strength. Levitaz stainless fuselage is pretty, but it's superlight either and wing/mast/stabilizer connections while done elegantly are overly complicated.

You don't feel foil weight much while riding, but carrying a light one or jumping it makes hell of a difference.

I'm going to take a while to absorb this (the mix of gms with lbs is a complicating factor ... along with inches & cms. That's the conflicted world we live in!

I have two foils: a Zeeko blue & white with Carver wing, which weighs 4.5 kg & an all-carbon LP foil, with 1m mast & wing similar size to the Carver which weighs 2.6 kg. There's a huge difference between them in perceived weight. The fuselage of the Zeeko seems like a very significant component of the total weight. However, simplistically put, the Zeeko is "easier" to ride. Aside from the greater ease of carrying the lighter foil on land, the Lp carbon foil also easier to maneuver in the water & it's also less intimidating to ride on because you feel less scared about injuring yourself by falling on the foil.

The origins of foiling, mostly centred around speed, made light weight/stiffness/aerodynamics of paramount importance. I can see that for jumping you would also want a light foil. General free-riding/carving/surfing, weight & aerodynamics would seem to be much less important. So ... why choose an aluminum fuselage/carbon mast over a carbon fuselage/aluminum mast, or for that matter an aluminum mast & fuselage, which is what Moses/SS also have on offer?

So... the question remains:

[gmb13]

The Moses Hydrofoil Aluminium Hydrofoil Kit has just arrived. Check out my unboxing video.

[grigorib]

So ... why choose an aluminum fuselage/carbon mast over a carbon fuselage/aluminum mast, or for that matter an aluminum mast & fuselage, which is what Moses/SS also have on offer?
...

because my 30" Slingshot Hoverglide mast with plate and adapter cost me $160 total. And last year I sold my 71cm Moses mast for $690, and they only got more expensive since. The $500 is main difference, along with luxury factor and smoothness of riding carbon on the other side. Flying with aluminum mast is not easy but you probably won't teach students on expensive setup.

So pros and cons. Liquid Force pushed the cost bar down with their aluminum Fish and many followed.

[grigorib]

The Moses Hydrofoil Aluminium Hydrofoil Kit has just arrived. Check out my unboxing video.

Gunnar, what's the total weight of the setup?

[a99]

Can't understand how for people can be enough 75cm mast, im riding on 91cm and for me its really not enought. Dreaming about something 123cm for sea at least.
Moses playong strange marketing game, made mast of alum 75 cm lenght for 120 euros and small adapter 10 cm lenght adapter for this mast for 160 euros. Where is logic ???