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Moses SABfoil

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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri May 20, 2022 12:35 am

Well shit, my 633 setup is getting old and I was thinking about getting the 699. Maybe it's finally time to try a different brand. I need to find a foil demo after my shoulder heals. Thanks Foil for the review!

Foil
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Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 91kg
Local Beach: New Brighton near Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide deep lagoon
and regular at Rhosneigr and Newbrough on Anglesey
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough, Blackrock sands
lake Como (Italy) El Medano
Style: kite foiler since 2017 Ttip since 2000
Gear: My rule to gear choice is "IF IT DONT BOOST ITS NO USE"
Groove Skates 110cm 2022 editions
kraken mast systems 103k and 93k.
Kraken fuse 703k
Duotone SLS Evo's -- 11mtr/9mtr/7mtr/6mtr/ 4mtr RRD.
Duotone 2022 click bars x2,my own custom made lines fitted,
(modified lines now available for the flite99 shod duotone bars)

Bar lines made up to any length in a choice of strengths, power lines, trim lines, pigtails, leader lines, bridal lines, elasticated lines, I make and fit them all, free fit and tune service,
quick turnaround,drop me a message, find me on messenger, Colin Moore.
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Foil » Fri May 20, 2022 6:20 pm

Frankieboy wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 8:10 pm
Tx Foil !
How would you compare 633 and 799 for kiting?
Very near the same, with small differences, lift on the 799 is punchy fast,
not quite as pleasing as the 633 with its predictable strong more linear power packed push up,
also the 633 wings ability to get flying in silly light airs is there for even the heavy riders, I also found the 799 had a slower top speed, maybe a little bit, but it felt slower, but no GPS to confirm, the 799 wins the "looks better and faster" stakes, shame I sold it before I got my Kraken masts, these masts have shown just how great the 633 can be when the Wing is held in place much more firmly, the kraken masts 103 and 93 transformed that wing set into a speed demon and fun extreme machine, total confidence booster as it feels so good when pushed hard, this might be the same for most wings especially the bigger ones that can be held back by a softer flexible mast like the 1 series, or the slower design of the 2 series.
Is the 799 a better wing for me than the 699, you bet it is! but would I grab the 799 first from the car instead of the 633? I might pause for a second but no, the 633 just beats it in a few important areas, the fun machine 633 edges it out. Just!
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Frankieboy » Fri May 20, 2022 7:53 pm

about the mast, I just got a project cedrus 93cm mounted and the size and stiffness made the 633 ride much beter compared to the M82
This with the old S425 of course :-)
I might get a new end-of-life discounted 633 to be safe
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a99
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby a99 » Fri May 20, 2022 8:59 pm

Foil wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:15 pm
ok 2 days to and fro from the 633 to the 699,
the 699 is confusing me as I thought the 699 would be a similar ride as the 633,
Rhosneigr Nth Wales the conditions have been perfect for the last 2 days, 7mtr most of the time to a maximum 9mtr, big waves the first 7mtr day, well very big for me on a foil, twice my height with some bigger sets pushing through, but after hi tide the water sort of flattened off a bit, same today but smaller 5ft waves, the 699 reminded me very much of the 679 the old 682, the 399 rear wing made the 699 a bit too unstable for me, much more stable with the 483 on the rear, but still unstable compared to the 633, this took away my confidence to drop down the waves at speed, so it was a good thing I only went in the waves near the shoulders just in case, as i was fearful of crashing down the wave face,
speed comes on smoothly, but the front wing was singing its head off, easy to fix but it proves it not always the rear wing,
some have said this may be a good learning wing, i would have to say i would not agree, the 799 is more gentle and forgiving and much more stable with good progressive lift, the 699 has fierce lift and needs quick reactions to stop it jumping clear of the water, i think some guys will have a great time trying different rear wings to get nearer the feel they prefer, for me though I am keeping my 633 wings. fun and fast in all conditions, no mods needed apart from getting them mounted on the Kraken masts 103 for the open sea with waves and 93 for the flatter water, massive difference!!
Thanks for this first review of 699!
Interesting to read how you compare 633 vs 699, but maybe 699 is not such wing which was designed in mind to be further step of 633. Because different shape, very big cm2 difference.
Maybe better to compare with 800 or 940 (or 799 as you already compared). More similarities in shapes and cm2.
Hope you will write more 699 reviews after your session because i think a lot of people would like to hear more about 699. Seems Sab did very big promo of this wing writing as it is most universal (all around for All disciplines) for all and even so long not provide it on sales. But usually what is very universal than not well suits for each:)

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1447
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 91kg
Local Beach: New Brighton near Liverpool. Open sea with big low tide deep lagoon
and regular at Rhosneigr and Newbrough on Anglesey
Favorite Beaches: New Brighton, Rhosneigr, Fleetwood, Newbrough, Blackrock sands
lake Como (Italy) El Medano
Style: kite foiler since 2017 Ttip since 2000
Gear: My rule to gear choice is "IF IT DONT BOOST ITS NO USE"
Groove Skates 110cm 2022 editions
kraken mast systems 103k and 93k.
Kraken fuse 703k
Duotone SLS Evo's -- 11mtr/9mtr/7mtr/6mtr/ 4mtr RRD.
Duotone 2022 click bars x2,my own custom made lines fitted,
(modified lines now available for the flite99 shod duotone bars)

Bar lines made up to any length in a choice of strengths, power lines, trim lines, pigtails, leader lines, bridal lines, elasticated lines, I make and fit them all, free fit and tune service,
quick turnaround,drop me a message, find me on messenger, Colin Moore.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 116 times
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Foil » Sat May 21, 2022 7:25 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 12:35 am
Well shit, my 633 setup is getting old and I was thinking about getting the 699. Maybe it's finally time to try a different brand. I need to find a foil demo after my shoulder heals. Thanks Foil for the review!
it would be great for another fast and strapped down rider to take the 699 out on the very stiff kraken mast, have it perfectly set up in the track box so level height and perfect foot ballance feel at normal medium cruise speed of say 15knts, 699 feeling smooth and eager (twitchy) then start bearing off wind and build the speed to maximum, as i did, very soon i was out of control, around 25 knts the front foot pressure just hit so hard and so fast it chucked me off, adding more emergency front foot pressure just made me go faster and increased the front foot pressure, argh splat!!
not a case of side ways slip out -ventilating-no!- just flying out of the water, insane explosive lift, but only at very quick speed, the same fast explosive feel is felt for a second at the water start stage, but this is more easily controlled by any experienced foiler.
the 399 or the 683 rear wings made no difference to this.
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Qiter » Sat May 21, 2022 7:51 am

Foil wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:20 pm
Frankieboy wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 8:10 pm
Tx Foil !
How would you compare 633 and 799 for kiting?
Very near the same, with small differences, lift on the 799 is punchy fast,
not quite as pleasing as the 633 with its predictable strong more linear power packed push up,
also the 633 wings ability to get flying in silly light airs is there for even the heavy riders, I also found the 799 had a slower top speed, maybe a little bit, but it felt slower, but no GPS to confirm, the 799 wins the "looks better and faster" stakes, shame I sold it before I got my Kraken masts, these masts have shown just how great the 633 can be when the Wing is held in place much more firmly, the kraken masts 103 and 93 transformed that wing set into a speed demon and fun extreme machine, total confidence booster as it feels so good when pushed hard, this might be the same for most wings especially the bigger ones that can be held back by a softer flexible mast like the 1 series, or the slower design of the 2 series.
Is the 799 a better wing for me than the 699, you bet it is! but would I grab the 799 first from the car instead of the 633? I might pause for a second but no, the 633 just beats it in a few important areas, the fun machine 633 edges it out. Just!
I agree with most of foil's assessment of the 799. Background: Advanced foiler, 90kg, mostly freestyle, have ridden most Moses freestyle oriented wings (633,679,790,718..). The 799 is a good replacement for the 633 (if there ever needs to be one). The downsides were already explained by foil, one being the rather aggressive lift. Another issue is the trim: I was really struggling to find the right trim for the 799 on the new Kraken 703 fuselage. Moved the mast forward and the back again, added a shim (not the ones that come with the foil, they are all shimming down, I needed about 1degree up to reduce lift) and eventually now got it balanced. This is on the 425 stabiliser.

Before receiving the Kraken, I rode it on the "old" 710 fuselage with M6 adapters and the 450, 483 stabilisers, the trim was no issue, "plug and play", just like the 633.

Now to the positive sides: The wing together with the 103 Kraken mast is amazingly stable, especially upwind its like you are going on rails. It has a lot more stability on the roll axis compared to the 633 and in maneuvers, it "glides" a bit longer than the 633 (i.e. if you have no kite pull, you stay on the foil longer). In waves, its maybe a tad less responsive compared to the 633. Lowend is roughly the same, if not lower for the 799 (but this might also be my improved skills since last riding the 633).
I feel its characteristics depend much more on the stabiliser than the 633. I also did not like the 799 with the 399 stabiliser (which is the recommended choice), it becomes very "skaty". It works well with the 450 or 483, but it becomes much slower. The 425 is likely a good compromise but it will take some time to trim it right if you are used to the old, balanced "plug and play" feel of other Moses wings.
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Frankieboy » Sat May 21, 2022 9:16 am

if it can be of any help, I ride the 633 with a Kahana Shapes 94cm board. No rails.
I use the old 425 race stab which is great with 633 and the new 425 for winging with the 945.
I took only the new 425 on holiday just to have 1 fuse and 1 stab with 2 wings for kiting & winging, the setup was just not ridable with the 633! So much front foot, my board wasn't long enough.
Didn't feel like adding shims, this is just not the right stab.

I think setups for kitefoiling (especially with pocket boards) and winging can't be the same. You need much more front foot pressure with the wing just because the boards are much bigger and longer.
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby Frankieboy » Sat May 21, 2022 10:34 am

anybody tried S399 or S370 with the 633 kitefoiling?

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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby mirza23454 » Sat May 21, 2022 4:05 pm

I normally ride w800+s399. I had one 1-2 hr session last week on w633+s399 on a strapless pocket board (custom lp maverick s) and I thought it seemed good, but probably not enough experience to tell? It seemed to have less easy speed (unless I really worked the kite) and less glide than w800, but I think that’s to be expected. Stability and balance were good (didn’t notice any concerns) but with this board I always need some foot work and weight shifting to find the right balance. The w633 had superior (night and day) breach recovery vs the w800 (which crashes on any little breach). Going to ride it more over the next week.
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Re: Moses SABfoil

Postby a99 » Sat May 21, 2022 5:04 pm

mirza23454 wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 4:05 pm
I normally ride w800+s399. I had one 1-2 hr session last week on w633+s399 on a strapless pocket board (custom lp maverick s) and I thought it seemed good, but probably not enough experience to tell? It seemed to have less easy speed (unless I really worked the kite) and less glide than w800, but I think that’s to be expected. Stability and balance were good (didn’t notice any concerns) but with this board I always need some foot work and weight shifting to find the right balance. The w633 had superior (night and day) breach recovery vs the w800 (which crashes on any little breach). Going to ride it more over the next week.
Maybe you or someone tried 800 with 483 stab, how is it? 483 stab should get a lot of lift usually, at least for 633.


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