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Moses SABfoil

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apollo4000
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby apollo4000 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:22 am

Floating around wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:03 pm
So dose anyone know what is going on with Moses, I was just on the website and basically everything is out of stock or low stock. Running down stock ready for 2021 models?
Impact of Covid; impact of Aug summer break in Italy; I was told 2 weeks before the product I want is back in stock.

Michaelr123
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Michaelr123 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:50 pm

grigorib wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:23 am
Once upon a time in 2020
So going back to this post:

I see the W800, W695, and W679. For those of us that started with a 590/330 setup, what would be the best step towards something a bit better for light wind? I love my W590, but its probably not a great tool for ~10kt winds. I'm getting more efficient at launching every time I get out, but I know having something with a bit better early planing would help. I don't want to sacrifice top end though, Ideally I'd get something that is still stable at 30mph and doesn't require a ton of front foot pressure. Is the W800 replacing the W695? I've watched quite a few videos on high aspect wings and it seems like they have some really nice performance characteristics compared to lower aspect wings. I also feel like the W695 isn't that much bigger than the W590. Maybe that ~100cm^2 makes a huge difference, I'd rather hear from someone who's actually ridden both, and maybe the W800 as well :)

At some point I plan on getting a W671 to practice racing, but this is an even smaller wing. I can't imagine that's the answer for what I'm trying to do right now.

I started with a slingshot inf 76 setup, which I love for practicing tricks, but Its pretty boaty at this point for me. is the W679 a good option to look at for an upgrade on the surf wing side of things? At the moment I'm thinking about sticking with kite wings for now.

grigorib
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:40 pm

Michaelr123 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:50 pm
grigorib wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:23 am
Once upon a time in 2020
So going back to this post:

I see the W800, W695, and W679. ...
The 695 is 20% bigger than 590 and has significant additional lowend and early planing. The 800 is even better. Yet neither 695 nor 800 have higher cruising speed of 590. I’m aiming at a pair of wings - 800 and 637 (maybe 671 later) to cover lowend and speed. I did almost 30 MPH on 800 and 695 can deliver same speed (yet 800 is more stable at top end) so those are not slow wings.
The 695 is great additional wing for 590 set, so is the 800
And as of the race wings - 671 will fully replace your 590 and you won’t look back. It’s just a better wing.
Any of kite wings, 800 included don’t generate crazy front foot pressure so you’re good from that perspective.
As of 679 - it has better lowend than 800 but not as stable, needs additional fuselage (or adapter to kite fuselage). It also sheds seaweed better than kite wings. I rode 683s (identical to 679) as my main setup for 2019 and enjoyed it a lot too. But I don’t want to carry two fuselages so hopefully Moses will make a larger arrowhead “seaweed wing” for kite fuselage

These are all mine, and I rode all of them quite a lot to shape my own opinion

Michaelr123
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Michaelr123 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:10 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:40 pm

These are all mine, and I rode all of them quite a lot to shape my own opinion
That's some really good insight, thank you. I think I'd like to get my wing quiver down to 3 wings, A race wing (671), freeride/general use (W695 or W800) and then a surf wing for moses as well (679/633). It sucks a bit that you need an extra fuse, but they're pretty small and light to pack up in the back of the car or for travel if you really want to do it all for foiling. you may need to leave behind the twin tip and kites for that sport though ;)

I would think you could hold onto a W590 or get a 550 or something like that for jumping as a 4th option I suppose.
grigorib wrote: Yet neither 695 nor 800 have higher cruising speed of 590.
So for cruising speed, do you mean sort of the "comfy" riding speed that foils tend to sit at? I can ride pretty comfortably between 16-22mph on my 590. If I start trying then I can push my average over 25mph pretty quickly, and hit 30mph as a max for a 10sec or so. Would riding the 800 or 695 just require you to start leaning into the foil a bit earlier? Compared to the 695 I'm guessing the 800 is going to glide farther and be a lot more roll stable, where as the W695 will retain some of the agility like the 590.

My goal is to start learning roll tacks, which a little more stable wing should aid, and to have a bit better lowend as we ride 8-12kt wind all the time around here. I know its splitting hairs, but if you had to have one, which would you pick? I know one guy by me rides his 695 everyday, though I do think he has a 590 front wing. All the other guys are on various slingshot wings.

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gmb13
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby gmb13 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:27 pm

Hi Everyone,

Here is a little video of me kiting on the W800 and the S400 Stab.



--
Gunnar
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dave1986
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby dave1986 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:23 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:27 pm
Hi Everyone,

Here is a little video of me kiting on the W800 and the S400 Stab.



--
Gunnar
Thanks for the video Gunnar. How does the W800 compare to the W590? (Top speed/ Low-end/ Manoeuvrability)

Michaelr123
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Michaelr123 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:39 pm

Awesome video man! looks like the w800 is the way to go for everything :D What size kite and wind were you in during this sesh?

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gmb13
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby gmb13 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:07 am

Michaelr123 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:39 pm
Awesome video man! looks like the w800 is the way to go for everything :D What size kite and wind were you in during this sesh?
9m Orbit 2021 and it was about 18 knots.

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grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Hood River; La Ventana; Ocean Park, PR; SPI; Tawas, MI
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses/RDB 70/90/101cm masts with 1200/860/800/730/600 kitefoil or 2200/1700/1400 wingfoil wings and 310/230/425 stabilizers, Naish MicroChip 80cm, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 100, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot Turbine 9/13m, 20” Guardian bar, 1700 sq.cm wing/fuselage/stabilizer fitting Moses mast
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:00 pm

Michaelr123 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:10 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:40 pm

These are all mine, and I rode all of them quite a lot to shape my own opinion
That's some really good insight, thank you. I think I'd like to get my wing quiver down to 3 wings, A race wing (671), freeride/general use (W695 or W800) and then a surf wing for moses as well (679/633). It sucks a bit that you need an extra fuse, but they're pretty small and light to pack up in the back of the car or for travel if you really want to do it all for foiling. you may need to leave behind the twin tip and kites for that sport though ;)

I would think you could hold onto a W590 or get a 550 or something like that for jumping as a 4th option I suppose.
grigorib wrote: Yet neither 695 nor 800 have higher cruising speed of 590.
So for cruising speed, do you mean sort of the "comfy" riding speed that foils tend to sit at? I can ride pretty comfortably between 16-22mph on my 590. If I start trying then I can push my average over 25mph pretty quickly, and hit 30mph as a max for a 10sec or so. Would riding the 800 or 695 just require you to start leaning into the foil a bit earlier? Compared to the 695 I'm guessing the 800 is going to glide farther and be a lot more roll stable, where as the W695 will retain some of the agility like the 590.

My goal is to start learning roll tacks, which a little more stable wing should aid, and to have a bit better lowend as we ride 8-12kt wind all the time around here. I know its splitting hairs, but if you had to have one, which would you pick? I know one guy by me rides his 695 everyday, though I do think he has a 590 front wing. All the other guys are on various slingshot wings.
On the picture below is the latest update on my quiver.

Regarding your points:
- race wings jump great, so 671 would rock
- 800 due to high aspect glides waves perfectly
- 800 is more stable at speed than 695, yet 695 is less disturbed by wave undercurrent
- by cruising speed I mean comfy speed without having to use lots of kite power or have to push the foil. The thinner the wing is - the higher the speed will be
- 679 has nice lowend for people learning and it also sheds seaweed better due to arrowhead shape

In my opinion the 800+671 is amazing and sufficient combination. Best minimalistic case :)

I started leaving the TT behind few years ago. I only ride TT in few below cases, anything else is a foiling condition
- riding shallow water (esp. very shallow in side/offshore)
- jumping in 20+ knots
- riding severely seaweed infested water where foil wouldn’t ride uninterrupted
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Last edited by grigorib on Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Michaelr123
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Michaelr123 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:16 pm

I like your thinking! a 671 / 800 would be a sweet combo. I should probably get a 421 stab for them eventually, but that can be shared between the two front wings.

I just put in a order for a W800! I'm going to see how it rides with the 330 stab for now. Depending on how it rides I'll add on a 421 stab either this year or next, and then a 671 wing to finish up the quiver! Then I'll have to decide what to do with my 590/330. I'll have to decide If I want to hold on to them or not.


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