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Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 4:57 pm
by Foil
wow! I nearly bought that kit yesterday, but opted for the 483 stab and the older longer fuse, tried tested and unbeatable (maybe)
I did not want to loose any of the feel gained from the "old"fuse, stab, and the 633 and 683S.
its not broken, so I am not looking to fix it (just buying a spare set)

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 pm
by grigorib
So as I said above I got my 710 fuselage and 450 stabilizer today and had reasons to be glad and had reasons to be disappointed.
First thing first, the data (pics below)

749 vs 710 vs 743v1 fuselages
Weight 893g | 850g | 989g
length between front mast mount hole to nearest wing hole 106mm | 93mm | 65mm
length between closest wing hole and stabilizer hole 507mm | 467mm | 513mm
note: front stabilizer bolt supplied with 710 is 20mm vs 16mm supplied with 749

483 vs 450 stabilizer
Area (sq.cm) 316 | 325.65 - 3% increase
Weight 196g | 241g - 23% increase
note: 450 wingtips are pointed up and are less pointy so there'll be less chance of wingtip damage (which 483 occasionally gets)

Complete weight
633/749/483 2177g (original version released in 2017)
633/749/483 1815g (newer version being sold lately)
683s/710/450 1857g

A nice note before I start complaining - the 683s/710/450 fits into Slingshot Fkite bag (no chance for 633/749/483) and I like those a lot. They keep wings safe from anything around and they protect everything around from wings

Now, time to b!tch and I'm surprised/pissed
- I don't know why and what is the reason behind smaller 683s (vs. 633) and a tad larger 450 (vs. 483) paired with lighter fuselage to result in more total weight.
- I don't know how and why 450 being only 3% larger than 483 weigh 45g more (23% extra). Reminds me of original heavy 633 set
- I don't know by what standards there's a gap between leading edge of 683s wing and fuselage but that gap is even bigger that I saw between 590 and 680 fuselage. The gap catches small seaweed strains and messes up riding. To be fair the gap is same with 683s mounted on either 749 or 710 and it's not present with 633 wing

I will certainly be riding 683s/710/450 but I wish it was flawless and if someone had looked at it more critically - we'd have a perfect set.

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:37 pm
by max
grigorib wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 pm

- I don't know by what standards there's a gap between leading edge of 683s wing and fuselage but that gap is even bigger that I saw between 590 and 680 fuselage. The gap catches small seaweed strains and messes up riding. To be fair the gap is same with 683s mounted on either 749 or 710 and it's not present with 633 wing

I will certainly be riding 683s/710/450 but I wish it was flawless and if someone had looked at it more critically - we'd have a perfect set.

This was my big disappointment also. I initially thought it was a defect in mine until a friend said that his was the same with the 749 . . . I have the 710.

Also, was told that the 633 fit perfectly.

It suggests that the fuselage is made for the 633 and that the 683 upper foil differs ever so slightly but that they could live with there being a gap.


Only really an issue on a weedy day for me which has not been often and I gather the small gap could be filled with thin foam shim (that is my plan if it starts to really bother me)

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 pm
by Gonzolinho
Moses will be out of the market soon.
Slinghot has stopped the cooperation with them, so it will be interesting to see the new developments being released as almost all of the wings were Slingshot designs.

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:48 pm
by max
grigorib wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 pm
So as I said above I got my 710 fuselage and 450 stabilizer today and had reasons to be glad and had reasons to be disappointed.
First thing first, the data (pics below)

749 vs 710 vs 743v1 fuselages
Weight 893g | 850g | 989g
length between front mast mount hole to nearest wing hole 106mm | 93mm | 65mm
length between closest wing hole and stabilizer hole 507mm | 467mm | 513mm
note: front stabilizer bolt supplied with 710 is 20mm vs 16mm supplied with 749

483 vs 450 stabilizer
Area (sq.cm) 316 | 325.65 - 3% increase
Weight 196g | 241g - 23% increase
note: 450 wingtips are pointed up and are less pointy so there'll be less chance of wingtip damage (which 483 occasionally gets)


I will certainly be riding 683s/710/450 but I wish it was flawless and if someone had looked at it more critically - we'd have a perfect set.


Am keen to hear about the 683 with the 450 stabiliser in comparison to the 483 stabiliser.

Also, regarding the 749 v's the 710.
Are your measurements slightly off or is there a difference somewhere else? 39mm difference in length and 13mm (106-93) and 40mm (507-467) makes 53mm in movement.

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:27 am
by grigorib
max wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:48 pm

Also, regarding the 749 v's the 710.
Are your measurements slightly off or is there a difference somewhere else? 39mm difference in length and 13mm (106-93) and 40mm (507-467) makes 53mm in movement.
106 vs 93 is from rear hole of front wing to front hole of mast mount
507 vs 467 is from rear hole of front wing to front hole of stabilizer

The first measurement is part of the second one, you don’t add them up. So 40mm I measured is about 39mm dotal length difference and 1mm must have been lost in translation :)

Even Stringy’s 743v1 fuselage is overall shorter by 6mm (749-743=6) but has wing and stabilizer further apart by 6mm (513-507=6). There is more material and weight to cut off on that fuselage :)

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:12 am
by grigorib
Gonzolinho wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 pm
Moses will be out of the market soon.
Slinghot has stopped the cooperation with them, so it will be interesting to see the new developments being released as almost all of the wings were Slingshot designs.
Moses makes one of the best foils you can buy. Slingshot is already behind Cabrinha in neat aluminum mast foils and unlike clean Cabrinha line the slingshot wing line is confusing and overlapping. Slingshot did dump LP, then MHL and then they made huge mistake betting on outdated race foil wings two years back instead of waiting for few months and marketing 590/683s/633 which they could have also market as “choose your components - build your own setup”. They missed to market 71cm mast, 548 and 683s wings completely. So there’s a lot to learn from.

I hope they pick up the trend and come with clean, light line of foils, I wish them best. I ride Moses and Slingshot-rebranded Moses so I’m very thankful to both companies for fueling my addiction.

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:11 am
by Flyboy
grigorib wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:12 am
Gonzolinho wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 pm
Moses will be out of the market soon.
Slinghot has stopped the cooperation with them, so it will be interesting to see the new developments being released as almost all of the wings were Slingshot designs.
Moses makes one of the best foils you can buy. Slingshot is already behind Cabrinha in neat aluminum mast foils and unlike clean Cabrinha line the slingshot wing line is confusing and overlapping. Slingshot did dump LP, then MHL and then they made huge mistake betting on outdated race foil wings two years back instead of waiting for few months and marketing 590/683s/633 which they could have also market as “choose your components - build your own setup”. They missed to market 71cm mast, 548 and 683s wings completely. So there’s a lot to learn from.

I hope they pick up the trend and come with clean, light line of foils, I wish them best. I ride Moses and Slingshot-rebranded Moses so I’m very thankful to both companies for fueling my addiction.
I'm not clear ... is Slingshot not collaborating with Moses in the future?

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:41 am
by Foil
I don't think the future of moses is on shaky ground, quite the opposite.
I had a very interesting conversation with a direct contact of an industry insider this week, when I was asking him about the confusing reasons moses had brought out the 450 rear wing and shorter fuselage,
during a trip to the moses factory to explore the production process and ask questions inside the new factory, for example,moses explained that many brands were asking moses to make their carbon masts, the reasons were suggesting moses masts are the best for the price we pay, they witnessed the masts being made and could not believe the level of detail moses go to to get it right, and came away not understanding how Moses can charge so little considering the lengthy detailed process.
their customer service is fantastic, I have experienced that side myself, and my sailing buddies have as well, can't fault them, apart from confusing us with product codes and dates of new product release,
cut/paste errors on their website last year were odd.apart from that they are the best high quality brand for the price.

mind you, I think Gong is probably the best value allround, but is direct sales only with a small presence on the beach.
I have studied their full product range and its big with very good prices.some prices are shockingly low, not high tech stuff but getting better.

Re: Moses 2019

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:39 am
by tomtom
max wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:37 pm
grigorib wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 pm

- I don't know by what standards there's a gap between leading edge of 683s wing and fuselage but that gap is even bigger that I saw between 590 and 680 fuselage. The gap catches small seaweed strains and messes up riding. To be fair the gap is same with 683s mounted on either 749 or 710 and it's not present with 633 wing

I will certainly be riding 683s/710/450 but I wish it was flawless and if someone had looked at it more critically - we'd have a perfect set.

This was my big disappointment also. I initially thought it was a defect in mine until a friend said that his was the same with the 749 . . . I have the 710.

Also, was told that the 633 fit perfectly.

It suggests that the fuselage is made for the 633 and that the 683 upper foil differs ever so slightly but that they could live with there being a gap.


Only really an issue on a weedy day for me which has not been often and I gather the small gap could be filled with thin foam shim (that is my plan if it starts to really bother me)

and how hard is to make it like this... :evil: With all moses tech 5 axis robots etc... ridiculous