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Moses 2019

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max
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby max » Mon May 20, 2019 12:52 am

grigorib wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:23 am

Certainly will compare 683s/710/483/91 and 683s/710/450/91 in less than two weeks
:thumb:

tkaraszewski
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby tkaraszewski » Mon May 20, 2019 5:47 pm

Anyone know a source in the USA that actually has the Havok wing/stabilizer in stock? I don't feel like making a bunch of phone calls, I just want to click "buy" on a website somewhere. Silent Sports in Canada I think will ship to the US but they show the wings as out-of-stock.

grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 5m 2018 $500, Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $600, Slingshot SST 10m 2017 $500, Core XR4 10m $840, Core XR4 13.5m $970, Core XR4 17m $1060, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, Slingshot Turbine 15m 2018 like new $1100, BROkite carbon board 140x44 like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, Slingshot Guardian 20" brand new $290
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Mon May 20, 2019 6:49 pm

tkaraszewski wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:47 pm
Anyone know a source in the USA that actually has the Havok wing/stabilizer in stock? I don't feel like making a bunch of phone calls, I just want to click "buy" on a website somewhere. Silent Sports in Canada I think will ship to the US but they show the wings as out-of-stock.
PM sent

Dave K
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby Dave K » Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm

So I’ll put another plug in for Stringfellow’s Moses surf fuselage replacement (“743” as Grigorib likes to call it) Gigorib’s 743 weighs in about 100 grams more than the already heavyish discontinued Moses 749 fuselage. The one Stringfellow sent me weighs about 200 grams less than the 749. I have not ridden the 710 or the 450

So here are the numbers that I have

Baseline 749. Length 749 cm. Weight ~900grams. Price - discontinued
Moses 710. Length 710 cm. Weight ~850 grams. Mast position - 20 mm forward from 749. Price $360usd from Mackite
Stringfellow 743. Length 743 cm. Weight ~720 grams. Mast position - 40 mm forward from 749. Price $260usd direct from Jim
(Correct me if I’m wrong on any of this)

Anyway I’ve had a few sessions on the Light weight Stringfellow 743 and couldn’t be happier (633, 71 cm mast, 483). Just as quiet, stable/lively and strong (at least for kite foiling) as the old 749. Maybe it’s the placebo effect but l like being “slightly” more centered over the mast compared to the 749 and riding a wee bit more back on the board. Also like the wide adjustment options I have in setting mast position on my 120 cm Groove Skate (I can actually set the 633 way too far back and then tweak it forward rather than the old always jammed-all-the-way-back 749. My skill level is 2ish seasons flat water OBX, “still” working on fly foot switches and getting 25% of my 360’s and a few 180’s. Klutzy ole guy with bad knees :wink:

I doubt that it’s worth changing from the 710 but if you have the older 749, especially on a less large-wing-friendly board, I think it’s great value. (No connection here to Mr Stringfellow, just a happy customer)

grigorib
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Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 5m 2018 $500, Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $600, Slingshot SST 10m 2017 $500, Core XR4 10m $840, Core XR4 13.5m $970, Core XR4 17m $1060, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, Slingshot Turbine 15m 2018 like new $1100, BROkite carbon board 140x44 like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, Slingshot Guardian 20" brand new $290
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Tue May 21, 2019 6:52 pm

Dave K wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:30 pm
...
Baseline 749. Length 749 cm. Weight ~900grams. Price - discontinued
Moses 710. Length 710 cm. Weight ~850 grams. Mast position - 20 mm forward from 749. Price $360usd from Mackite
Stringfellow 743. Length 743 cm. Weight ~720 grams. Mast position - 40 mm forward from 749. Price $260usd direct from Jim
(Correct me if I’m wrong on any of this)
...
Couple of comments
- 710 has mast placed forward by 13mm (106-93mm measured hole to hole) compared to 749, but also stabilizer is closer to mast by 27mm which is important counterpoint and I'm not sure yet how it changes the balance (or into which side) compared to 749
- I started calling my 743 new name 743v1 and I'll call later version 743v2. Mine cost $300, I assume shipping makes difference. :) Jim does amazing job and I admire his creativity and works!

Neither 749 nor 743 fit into my foil bag though so I’d stick to 710 as most compact version until Moses hopefully releases 850-1000 sq.cm wing for 647 fuselage and then I’d give up on surf setup completely

However, the benefit of moved mast is awesome (especially for fixed hole boards), just as weight and cost of Stringy’s version and it’ll be useful for Dwarfcraft Micro riders too, due to track placement difference.

Last Saturday I rode 683s/710/450/105 and I had to move my feet forward by 2” compared to 683s/749/483/91. I only wonder which one of the three changes caused it (or more than one) and I’ll know in 10 days the latest unless we get good local winds before then.

max
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby max » Tue May 21, 2019 11:02 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:52 pm


Last Saturday I rode 683s/710/450/105 and I had to move my feet forward by 2” compared to 683s/749/483/91. I only wonder which one of the three changes caused it (or more than one) and I’ll know in 10 days the latest unless we get good local winds before then.
I was wondering about the two masts.

The 91 has a rearward lean when placed on its base standing upright (the fuse remains parallel to the floor). This should move the centre of effort rearward.

Does the 105 have any lean?

cwood
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby cwood » Wed May 22, 2019 12:39 am

tkaraszewski wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:47 pm
Anyone know a source in the USA that actually has the Havok wing/stabilizer in stock? I don't feel like making a bunch of phone calls, I just want to click "buy" on a website somewhere. Silent Sports in Canada I think will ship to the US but they show the wings as out-of-stock.
I got them from Silent. Love the setup.

grigorib
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Posts: 1840
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 5m 2018 $500, Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $600, Slingshot SST 10m 2017 $500, Core XR4 10m $840, Core XR4 13.5m $970, Core XR4 17m $1060, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, Slingshot Turbine 15m 2018 like new $1100, BROkite carbon board 140x44 like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, Slingshot Guardian 20" brand new $290
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Wed May 22, 2019 1:21 am

max wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:02 pm
grigorib wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:52 pm


Last Saturday I rode 683s/710/450/105 and I had to move my feet forward by 2” compared to 683s/749/483/91. I only wonder which one of the three changes caused it (or more than one) and I’ll know in 10 days the latest unless we get good local winds before then.
I was wondering about the two masts.

The 91 has a rearward lean when placed on its base standing upright (the fuse remains parallel to the floor). This should move the centre of effort rearward.

Does the 105 have any lean?
They both have a slight lean and 105 should be mounted 7mm forward (measured by trailing edge of mast plate) to get the wing into exact same spot as 91.
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max
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby max » Wed May 22, 2019 1:55 am

grigorib wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:21 am


They both have a slight lean and 105 should be mounted 7mm forward (measured by trailing edge of mast plate) to get the wing into exact same spot as 91.

so that would suggest that the 450 actually adds more lift/ front foot pressure if you have to stand an extra 2" forward.

Does that sound correct?

maybe not as I just noticed your comparison was between two different fuses.

683s/710/450/105 and 683s/749/483/91

grigorib
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Posts: 1840
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 5m 2018 $500, Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $600, Slingshot SST 10m 2017 $500, Core XR4 10m $840, Core XR4 13.5m $970, Core XR4 17m $1060, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, Slingshot Turbine 15m 2018 like new $1100, BROkite carbon board 140x44 like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, Slingshot Guardian 20" brand new $290
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Re: Moses 2019

Postby grigorib » Wed May 22, 2019 2:01 am

max wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:55 am
grigorib wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:21 am


They both have a slight lean and 105 should be mounted 7mm forward (measured by trailing edge of mast plate) to get the wing into exact same spot as 91.

so that would suggest that the 450 actually adds more lift/ front foot pressure if you have to stand an extra 2" forward.

Does that sound correct?

maybe not as I just noticed your comparison was between two different fuses.

683s/710/450/105 and 683s/749/483/91
Maybe not :) as mast and stabilizer and fuselage were different but one thing for sure was more forward stance. In 10 say I’ll ride same setup with 91cm mast and will try replacing one component at a time


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