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Moses 2019-2020-2021

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ScoopZ
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby ScoopZ » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:02 pm

I've a question for the knowledgeable out there, would the new 679 wing be compatible with the discontinued 680 fuselage? i.e compatible with the 71 short setup.

Thanks.

cwood
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:26 pm

ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:02 pm
I've a question for the knowledgeable out there, would the new 679 wing be compatible with the discontinued 680 fuselage? i.e compatible with the 71 short setup.

Thanks.
No, it is not

grigorib
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Posts: 2636
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:59 pm

ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:02 pm
I've a question for the knowledgeable out there, would the new 679 wing be compatible with the discontinued 680 fuselage? i.e compatible with the 71 short setup.

Thanks.
As stated above, no. But you can use 695 wing and that would make big difference in lowend and early plane speed

ScoopZ
Medium Poster
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:36 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Scotland.
Style: Catching bumps/carving.
Gear: Ozone 2014 Cats - 10/12.
Airush 5'6" Cypher
Airush Sector 60.
Has thanked: 25 times
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby ScoopZ » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:50 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:59 pm
ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:02 pm
I've a question for the knowledgeable out there, would the new 679 wing be compatible with the discontinued 680 fuselage? i.e compatible with the 71 short setup.

Thanks.
As stated above, no. But you can use 695 wing and that would make big difference in lowend and early plane speed
Thanks, I was hoping they offered a step above the 590 in surface area.

cwood
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:22 am

ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:50 pm
grigorib wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:59 pm
ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:02 pm
I've a question for the knowledgeable out there, would the new 679 wing be compatible with the discontinued 680 fuselage? i.e compatible with the 71 short setup.

Thanks.
As stated above, no. But you can use 695 wing and that would make big difference in lowend and early plane speed
Thanks, I was hoping they offered a step above the 590 in surface area.
Depending what you are seeking, its not just surface area that matters...in fact its somewhat an irrelevant measure....there are so many other factors in behavior and performance: aspect ratio, foil shape, profile taper, etc etc etc.

grigorib
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Posts: 2636
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:25 am

ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:50 pm
grigorib wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:59 pm
ScoopZ wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:02 pm
I've a question for the knowledgeable out there, would the new 679 wing be compatible with the discontinued 680 fuselage? i.e compatible with the 71 short setup.

Thanks.
As stated above, no. But you can use 695 wing and that would make big difference in lowend and early plane speed
Thanks, I was hoping they offered a step above the 590 in surface area.
That is exactly the case. 695 wing with its 770 sq.cm is about 20% larger than 590 (633 sq.cm per 2018 specs and later changed to 650 sq.cm) and you can feel the difference in lowend and early plane speed.
Needless to say that 590 is larger than 548 which comes standard with 71 short set

I was fortunate to demo 695 on my La Ventana trip last week and I’ll be posting a review soon.
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grigorib
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Posts: 2636
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:20 pm

So I did a week and a half in La Ventana. Whole time I wasn't tempted to assemble the twintip I brought and I was secretly hoping not to use 9m but ended up using it with 30m lines on Jan 24th which was a light day and only racers were out besides couple LEI riders plus three of us at Pelican reef
Foil...foil...foil it was all the time. Nice break from Midwest January.

I demoed some foils and kites on the trip and here are my takeaways:

first thing first - 2020 695 wing
the wing is about 20% larger than 590, same thickness, has better lowend and lower plane speed compared to 590. Unlike larger 633/683s wings you can bring it to stall, but it stalls at much lower speed compared to other kite wings and would make it great lowend expansion for anyone riding kite wings. I pushed it to about 26 MPH speed which is not much but also I was riding small kites, not aiming at top speed. Due to straight leading edge the wing will suck in OBX and anywhere with seaweeds present and collecting onto wing. So for that one reason it won't be my "the only wing" if I had to choose one. Great otherwise!

Second experience - 420 stabilizer
While riding the race stabilizer I stated cursing a bit for not having it earlier as it felt superior to standard 330 and made me wonder why 330 does need to exist to start with. The 420 improved pitch and roll stability, increased front foot pressure and allowed to move the mast an inch back and maybe even helped lowend (but not significantly). It allowed to use 590 on 2020 Dwarfcraft without having to drill mast plate holes and without need to shim the stabilizer.

two above 695/420 combo - not sure if Gunnar put them two together by chance, or by intent to move stance forward, or because he knows how awesome race stabilizers are - regardless 695 with race stabilizer is a smart idea and 695/330 is less so.

Next one - shimming. Not the first time but played with it more
I've been shimming the 450 stabilizer (pointing it 2 degrees up) to move my stance 2" back on my 36" woody board which doesn't have tracks. This time on contrary I had to shim 330 stabilizer down to be able to ride 590/695 on 2020 Dwarfcraft (not enough tracks space in front). Shimming stabilizer by couple of degrees down increased front foot pressure and corrected the stance compensating for mast position. Shimming down improved lowend and lowered average speed a bit.

One more - 32" KS board with 633 wing, 420 stabilizer and Stringy's fuselage (thanks to Rick)
I remember that moment years ago when I was choosing between 4'6" and 3'6" Dwarfcraft and was talked out by store from buying the small one because "it's for really advanced riders". I got the 4'6" and it was a mistake. Rode 3'6" for couple of years, the 2019 was ridden mostly on 36" board but I had my doubts about 32". It does look tiny and it weigh nothing but once you fly up, you're good. I was surprised how 420 kite race stabilizer and custom fuselage played along to keep foot position still very reasonable on a board that doesn't have tracks. Nice ride and I think I owe Rick experience of riding 683s.

Other experience was to ride 4/6/8m Ghosts (thanks to Casey and Neal) and 5m Ozone Reo (thanks to Steve) but that is for a discussion out of this thread if anyone is interested.
Last edited by grigorib on Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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kuit
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby kuit » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:58 am

Anyone tried the 718? What will be the difference in speed in comparison with the 670?

grigorib
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Posts: 2636
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:51 pm

kuit wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:58 am
Anyone tried the 718? What will be the difference in speed in comparison with the 670?
I rode the 720 Balz Pro wing which is "the mother" of 718 but mountable on surf fuselage. It's a 740 sq.cm large, somewhat thicker wing and it didn't go fast. The wingtips are pointed down which is a recipe for catching the rocks and shells on the bottom and splitting carbon on the winglets, just as it happens to 483 stabilizers.
If it was released last spring it would have been a hot item. As 2020 wing it overlaps and seems to be inferior to 695 in means of big boys' kitefoil-fuselage-mountable wing.

If you have kitefoil fuselage and need a race wing - find the 645, if you need a lowend wing for the same - get the 695. Use both with race stabilizer and it'll be sweet combo to have.
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cwood
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby cwood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:40 pm

Rode 679 yesterday, 7 to 9 kts with 10m Soul on 6m extensions (27m). Rain and sleet so a wet kite. Guys with 15's couldn't stay out. Someone with a 19m R1V2 was able to ride but swam eventually because one wrong move and taco city. I was nicely powered for 2 hours and managed a few boosts.

I am now a firm believer that if you fly foil kites, sub 10 kts you are far better off with a large wing and small kite than even a 15m or mega large kites. It's super fun to work the kite and manage your glide. 679 is a great wing!


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