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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:05 pm
by cwood
omg wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am
Does the F749 fuselage which I use take 790 and 873 wings and does it differ somehow from the 710 fuselage currently associated with the mentioned wings, please?

Second question; still wondering also abt the 790 and 873 wings; some say they didn't improve their lowend over the 633, but how can they not if you can pump them better than 633, hence I would assume that they come up from the water with less pull from the kite?
Hey, the 749 was the original surf / SUP fuselage. The newer 710 is a bit shorter and the mast mount point is a bit closer to the front wing mount. I assumed it would make some ride dynamics difference in controlling the larger lift when kiting....does not. So it might just be a bit more responsive in pitch and as a result in laid over carving.

With respect to 790, as we are experimenting with large wings, a buddy ordered the 790 and I went to 679. 679 is not far from 633, perhaps a titch faster and a bit more sporty and nicer to land from boost. I have not ridden the 790 (will in Cuba in 2 weeks back to back with 679) but his report is that it is very extreme in his view in kiting....He had ordered a different variation of his prior custom board and moved the tracks back significantly and strap positions with more spots forward (from a normal kite wing config) and still had to shim the mast to fuse a bit to get balanced flight!

My opinion, there will be diminishing returns of larger and larger wings when kiting. The SUP and Surf wings are meant to be self propelled, carry much more nose weight of board, maybe even paddle....while with kiting we have power and lighter board and no paddle etc. If you are a strap rider and are prepared to deal with the center of gravity issues....or strapless with unlimited stance options...and favor a really small kite to nudge you along then they might be a good choice. I think if you like to ride strapped and feel powered the lift might just be too hard to manage. This is from his first experiences and our discussions...will report back when I have ridden myself if I can even get it to work on my tracks and strap locations. I am skeptical given him having added about 5 inches of CG change and still having to shim.

Just my thoughts...others more experienced than I with the monster wings might put me in my place

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:29 pm
by grigorib
633 wing already goes so slow that it almost impossible to stall it. Even when stalling it kind of parachutes down because of the area. Imagine that making wings thicker and larger only slows them down and is less applicable to kiting.
749 fuselage rides the same as 710. Position of the mast is proportionally same between the wing and the stabilizer on both - even though mast is closer to the wing on 710, the stabilizer is also further closer to the mast.

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
by omg
Thanks guys. I was just thinking about I would enjoy something with more pumping ability for staying on the very small swell - could be that I'm way too optimistic abt the limits of the wings. Also thought that by buying a bigger wing my low end of the Peak4 5m would improve. However, although I ride strapless with Moses T22 (109cm) board, I am now having second thoughts abt the front foot pressure needed to balance the wing, more so if your friend needed to shim it. Hmm...

One further question; I have the "old Fluente 91 or 93cm mast" ie. the curved one and not the current, the straight one, and front 633 and back wing is 483. And for some reason this combination very abruptly looses control, ie. spins. It typically happens when I'm riding upwind, even when not pressuring that much. What can affect to this? It's very annoying to ride with speed and then something just kinda pulls in a fraction of second the whole system under your feet and you crash down.

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:52 pm
by grigorib
790/450 would be more surfy than 633/483

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:57 pm
by grigorib
southbound wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:07 pm
... in the 2020 catalog?
https://moseshydrofoil.com/storage/down ... _rev01.pdf
...
Interesting that in windfoil section there’s 671 wing looking just like and matching area of 670 race wing, but it must have countersink holes done on other side so it fits 647/1100 fuselages (for some reason 1100 fuselage is listed as 1150). It’s not on website (yet?) but brings hope to get a fun 2020 race wing for existing kite fuselage.
I like idea of 671+695 and 425 stabilizer combo

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:27 pm
by cwood
omg wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
Thanks guys. I was just thinking about I would enjoy something with more pumping ability for staying on the very small swell - could be that I'm way too optimistic abt the limits of the wings. Also thought that by buying a bigger wing my low end of the Peak4 5m would improve. However, although I ride strapless with Moses T22 (109cm) board, I am now having second thoughts abt the front foot pressure needed to balance the wing, more so if your friend needed to shim it. Hmm...

One further question; I have the "old Fluente 91 or 93cm mast" ie. the curved one and not the current, the straight one, and front 633 and back wing is 483. And for some reason this combination very abruptly looses control, ie. spins. It typically happens when I'm riding upwind, even when not pressuring that much. What can affect to this? It's very annoying to ride with speed and then something just kinda pulls in a fraction of second the whole system under your feet and you crash down.
Dude.....I had the original curved mast Silente......learned on it, then moved on to 101 and other wings....broke a mast and had to dig out the Silente while I waited for warranty replacement. The thing was almost unridable....as a more competent foiler, any load of any magnitude had that nasty outcome. I think its the mast ventilating....I tried cleaning it up and could never make it any better....if I did anything other than lazy riding it would ventilate violently as soon as you pushed up wind with any moderate aggression. Not sure if its the curve or what but I sold it....not viable even as a backup for my riding. I'd rather be on a vibrating g10 and aluminum rig than that thing.

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:20 pm
by TomW
cwood wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:27 pm
omg wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:30 pm
Thanks guys. I was just thinking about I would enjoy something with more pumping ability for staying on the very small swell - could be that I'm way too optimistic abt the limits of the wings. Also thought that by buying a bigger wing my low end of the Peak4 5m would improve. However, although I ride strapless with Moses T22 (109cm) board, I am now having second thoughts abt the front foot pressure needed to balance the wing, more so if your friend needed to shim it. Hmm...

One further question; I have the "old Fluente 91 or 93cm mast" ie. the curved one and not the current, the straight one, and front 633 and back wing is 483. And for some reason this combination very abruptly looses control, ie. spins. It typically happens when I'm riding upwind, even when not pressuring that much. What can affect to this? It's very annoying to ride with speed and then something just kinda pulls in a fraction of second the whole system under your feet and you crash down.
Dude.....I had the original curved mast Silente......learned on it, then moved on to 101 and other wings....broke a mast and had to dig out the Silente while I waited for warranty replacement. The thing was almost unridable....as a more competent foiler, any load of any magnitude had that nasty outcome. I think its the mast ventilating....I tried cleaning it up and could never make it any better....if I did anything other than lazy riding it would ventilate violently as soon as you pushed up wind with any moderate aggression. Not sure if its the curve or what but I sold it....not viable even as a backup for my riding. I'd rather be on a vibrating g10 and aluminum rig than that thing.
Interesting, I'm still riding my 2016 fluente mast(93). I've also found it difficult to press windward with 633 wing. Often wondered if it was the mast. Then I bought a Gong mpro M with straight aluminum 90 cm mast and it doesn't have this behaviour.

I was thinking of getting a new mast, but the whole Gong setup is 1/2 price of just the new moses mast...so gave it a try. Now I'm only riding the Gong. I can press it hard windward. It's faster, more agile, and has basically same low end.
Yea, I could of bought a new moses mast, and the 679 wing, but it is 1100€ VS 450€...

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:20 am
by Kiterisland
A quick question for you experienced moses guys. I bought my first foil, it’s a slingshot nf2 but with the H2 (gamma 68) front wing. I was told that it would be similar to the 633 Moses front wing which I’ve read much about. Is that true? And is the h2 a descent wing for kiting low wind? Thanks

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:45 am
by grigorib
Kiterisland wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:20 am
A quick question for you experienced moses guys. I bought my first foil, it’s a slingshot nf2 but with the H2 (gamma 68) front wing. I was told that it would be similar to the 633 Moses front wing which I’ve read much about. Is that true? And is the h2 a descent wing for kiting low wind? Thanks
H2 (aka Gamma 68) is 960 sq.cm and 633 is about 1250 so there’s significant area difference. A ~1000 sq.cm wing is sufficient for most of kitefoiling applications and can go fairly slow. However the 633 set would be lightwindier, surfier, smoother to ride and much lighter. H2 would be as lowend as 695 wing maybe but again, 695 will be so much lighter

Re: Moses 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:02 am
by Whattheflock
I have the H4 and H2 wings with 28" (71cm) mast with my dwarfcraft 4'6" board and looking for some insight in my future foil setup. I don't really know what I want just yet. I weigh 70kg's and love the H4 for lightwind but would like a bit more speed. Is the 633 a little quicker? It'd be nice to have a lighter "H4" and maybe another smaller speedier wing later on for when the wind picks up and start some jumping?