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Moses 2019-2020

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oregonkiter
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby oregonkiter » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:33 pm

^^^
Starting at the 450, which is surfy with lots of lift, you gain speed, lose some vertical stability, and shed front foot pressure as you go to:

450-->425-->421/420

I was able to demo the 450/425/421

For playing on river swell, tacks and moves that benefit from a lower stall speed, I found the 425 to be the best combination of characteristics. If one is more inclined to straight line, or doing moves with more speed the 420/421 might be your stabilizer. There is a noticeable, but acceptable, loss of vertical stability going from 425-->420/21. Also, the 421 has very sharp little winglets, which I prefer not to use.

I am of the mind that Moses should bring back the 425.
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grigorib
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Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101/105cm masts with 637/420 695/425 590/330 679/450 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 590/647/330 $690, 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:18 pm

Large - 300+ sq.cm yet thin stabilizer would be awesome

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Frankieboy
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Frankieboy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:12 pm

DukeSilver wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:51 pm
Thanks for the quick reply. So you felt the 330 was a good fit with the 679?
Absolutly. Was very easy and well balanced
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a99
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby a99 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:46 pm

Tried 483, 425, 330 on 633.
So:
483 is worsest in general, to much lift in bigger speed and bad for foots regarding constant keeping pressure, no agile in turning at all, also higher stalling speed.
330 much much better,
but 425 is best of best in balance of all elements. I wrote about this stab few months ago, was first in this forum who wrote review about 425 on 633.
425 works perfectin lake and in sea and bigger or big waves equally. Very good balance,no uncontrolled lift and so one. Sad that Moses discontinued this rear wing.
Don’t have in mind to put 483 ever again on foil. Can’t understand why Moses so boosted this 483 on all sets.
Probably worst ever moses stabilizer of past two-three years.
Last edited by a99 on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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grigorib
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Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101/105cm masts with 637/420 695/425 590/330 679/450 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 590/647/330 $690, 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:52 pm

I see a bigger issue in not making larger wings for kite fuselage. 695 rocks but unless you want to ride a windsurf race wing there’s nothing at 1000 sq.cm range.

Not introducing a surf wing fuselage with wing closer to the mast is yet another mistake

Not introducing arrow-shaped-LE seaweed-proof wings is also missed

I hope guys read this forum and challenge themselves with questions we’re asking them

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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Frankieboy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:12 pm

Also 1800cm2 high AR for winging please :-)

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Frankieboy
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Frankieboy » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:14 pm

a99 wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:46 pm
Tried 483, 425, 330 on 633.
So:
483 is worsest in general, to much lift in bigger speed and bad for foots regarding constant keeping pressure, no agile in turning at all, also higher stalling speed.
330 much much better,
but 425 is best of best in balance of all elements. I wrote about this stab few months ago, was first in this forum who wrote review about 425 on 633.
425 works perfectin lake and in sea and bigger or big waves equally. Very good balance,no uncontrolled lift and so one. Sad that Moses discontinued this rear wing.
Don’t have in mind to put 483 ever again on foil. Can’t understand why Moses so boosted this 483 on all sets.
Probably worst ever moses stabilizer of past two-three years.
that's when I searched for a 425 and could luckily find one, thanks for the tip

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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby gigibianchi » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:32 pm

When Moses usually launch their new products each year? or better, when will they launch their new line for 2021?

grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101/105cm masts with 637/420 695/425 590/330 679/450 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 590/647/330 $690, 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:02 pm

gigibianchi wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:32 pm
When Moses usually launch their new products each year? or better, when will they launch their new line for 2021?
Usually end of year - Decemberish. Yet 2019 updates kept coming all year long

grigorib
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Posts: 2477
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana, SPI; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, SST 5m, Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101/105cm masts with 637/420 695/425 590/330 679/450 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 590/647/330 $690, 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:02 pm

I’d call what’s happening now “a manufacturers’ transition to large area high aspect wings”

Evolution of foiling as I see it
- We started with shovel-shaped large thin wings
- Then we switched to small high aspect race wings
- Then we started adding back large thick wings and that’s when market exploded in demand because those were easy to ride. We adapted “surf/SUP” to kiting.
- Yet we still needed large high aspect thin wings for more freeride fun/speed and they seem to be coming. We’re adapting “windsurf” wings to kiting

We probably going to end up with three kinds of wings
- beginner wings - sturdy, large, low aspect, safe
- freeride wings - high aspect, thin, a line of sizes
- surf wings - high aspect, thick, a line of sizes

Once geometry of each model is set it would make perfect sense to replicate a line of sizes to accommodate a range from lightweight kiters to heavyweight windsurfers. And given interchangeability it would be easy to pick a high/low wind pair of wings for a rider of any weight and application


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