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Moses 2019-2020-2021

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby grigorib » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:13 pm

I think shimming existing stabilizer down helps with earlier takeoff

geron
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby geron » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Joe, I have found that the 483 stab (compared to a smaller race stab like the 421) does improve my lowest wind capabilities with a kite to start foiling. I think it has to do with the surface area that contributes (giving more counter pressure) at the begining (at very slow speed) before there is enough flow in the wings. Also, I think that there is flow in this thicker wing at a lower speed.
But this is kite foiling (which is a very different dynamic than starting with a wing thing)

joekitetime
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby joekitetime » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:35 pm

geron wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:14 pm
Joe, I have found that the 483 stab (compared to a smaller race stab like the 421) does improve my lowest wind capabilities with a kite to start foiling. I think it has to do with the surface area that contributes (giving more counter pressure) at the begining (at very slow speed) before there is enough flow in the wings. Also, I think that there is flow in this thicker wing at a lower speed.
But this is kite foiling (which is a very different dynamic than starting with a wing thing)
I'm sure you are correct. I have never been in conditions so light that it makes a difference to where I need to swap stabs. I also found that the smaller the stab, the less drag. So, there becomes an inverse relationship. That same larger stab needed to get on foil with a kite provides added drag and limits top end speed. So, by gaining one attribute you give up on another.

I started flying in 6-8 mps winds with the peak4 kites. What I found is that the limiting factor is the kites ability to lift me up out of the water. If I can get enough force generated to come out of the water, then whatever foil I'm riding that day has the needed lift to get on foil. So, whether I use a small stab or bigger one does not matter, I come on foil. But, if I choose a larger stab I feel much more drag in the water, which hurts a lot on light wind days.

So, I agree with you regarding the 483 adding more lift to get on foil, but if I need that much more lift to get on foil since the wind is that light, then I'll end up giving in up on the other end of trying to maintain speed.

In the end we are better off with either stab in the water than sitting on the beach reading these forums!

geron
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby geron » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:35 pm

Jaja. Joe, I agree with you on everything, including more time in the water and less in front of a screen.
But the catch is that this low wind hidrofoiling is more technical and at the same time, gives more time on the water per year.

Michaelr123
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Michaelr123 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:03 am

I just took out my 800 wing for a really quick sunset sesh and had a blast! I thought I'd need to move it further back than my 590 because its a bigger wing, nope. I had the wing way too far back. next time I go out i'll put it at the same track spot as my 590, it might even end up a smidge further forward.

I was measuring 7-9mph when I was getting up on foil, this is way lower than the 590 which is more like 11-13mph. though it didn't feel like a surf foil, somehow it had more lift but in a tracky, fast sort of way. More like a 590, but just better lift. I only took it up to 21ish-mph as my front foot was super touchy at speed due to being at the wrong balance point. The wing was super maneuverable, maybe more so than the 590? I'll report back on that once I find the comfy balance point for this wing. I was on a new to me kite as well, so that just added to amount of stuff changing all at once.

All was perfect until I made my way in and clipped a small rock and put a nice ding on the tip of the wing :P they can't stay new forever right?

Thijs77
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Thijs77 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:18 am

joekitetime wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:07 pm
Thijs77 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:18 pm
Have you already tried w1000 with s400? Found it very difficult winging with this set to get enough speed to pop on foil.. but maybe my gong lemon 5’2 is too wide which gives too much drag.. Perhaps another stab like the s330?
Hmmm. For all intents and purposes I do not find the stab contributes to getting on foil, but rather affects the character of the ride.

I have found technique for getting on foil is huge when winging while being lightly powered to underpowered, not so much when powered to overpowered. So, I wouldn't look for a solution in another stab, but possibly technique or a bigger wing. I see you have the 3.5 and 6m swings. That is a big swing! I assume you were on your 6m?

I found the w1000 to be one of the earliest on foil of all foils I tried, so I'd consider another solution rather than different stab.
Yes, I used the 6m swing.. Somehow it feels like my 31" wide gong lemon gives too much drag. Once on foil I have no problem with the 1000 but getting there is a bit of an issue :lol:
Thought perhaps with a quick fix like a thicker stab it could go earlier with my 76 kgs but clearly not..
With the 1100 I get upon foil very easy, just one or two pumps and I'm off

grigorib
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Posts: 2621
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 am

Looking back at Moses line of 2020 I was lucky to enjoy three wings
- the 679 which replaced my 683s and was just as good
- the 695 which blown life back into my kite fuselage and made it rideable again at lower speeds
- the 800, introduced as windsurf race wing, it worked magic on kite fuselage and allowed even lower speeds than 695 while being more stable than 695 at high speeds.

The race stabilizers rocked for me in 2020 - first 420 made me feel that 330 is just obsolete and then I felt that 425 is a most universal/awesome Moses stabilizer.

I also enjoyed pure race 637 wing and hoping to replace it with 671 which came a bit too late, yet very much desired.

Folks enjoyed 1000 wing for wingfoiling and are begging Moses to introduce a 1500 sq.cm wing of similar qualities

Gunnar did a nice review and feedback on the 400 stabilizer too

Have to mention 72 and 82 masts which are stiffer than previous series and are praised by wingfoilers and wave riders. The 82cm mast closed gap between 71 and 91 sizes and folks riding shallows should be pretty happy with it

Time to start putting your dreams and wishlists into writing to inspire Moses and riders for new 2021 gear!

Wazza Foil
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Re: Moses 2019-2020

Postby Wazza Foil » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:29 am

Thijs77 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:18 am
joekitetime wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:07 pm
Thijs77 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:18 pm
Have you already tried w1000 with s400? Found it very difficult winging with this set to get enough speed to pop on foil.. but maybe my gong lemon 5’2 is too wide which gives too much drag.. Perhaps another stab like the s330?
Hmmm. For all intents and purposes I do not find the stab contributes to getting on foil, but rather affects the character of the ride.

I have found technique for getting on foil is huge when winging while being lightly powered to underpowered, not so much when powered to overpowered. So, I wouldn't look for a solution in another stab, but possibly technique or a bigger wing. I see you have the 3.5 and 6m swings. That is a big swing! I assume you were on your 6m?

I found the w1000 to be one of the earliest on foil of all foils I tried, so I'd consider another solution rather than different stab.
Yes, I used the 6m swing.. Somehow it feels like my 31" wide gong lemon gives too much drag. Once on foil I have no problem with the 1000 but getting there is a bit of an issue :lol:
Thought perhaps with a quick fix like a thicker stab it could go earlier with my 76 kgs but clearly not..
With the 1100 I get upon foil very easy, just one or two pumps and I'm off
I have the W1000 with 420 stab but soon the 400.
I have 110 and 125l Naish UC boards and no issues getting up onto the foil.
W1000 is now my 80% used wing for Windwing

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omg
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby omg » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:43 am

Just assembled my 1100 and 82cm carbon mast I received a couple days ago. And that thing is rigid! I had Gong 100cm carbon mast but it had fuselage manufacturing error (props to Gong customer service), but even without that issue, the mast was flexy, night and day compared to 82cm Moses. Not sure if it's fair to compare different length masts, but both torsional and length wise there was so much more flex. However, looking at Gong videos they do all kind of tricks with these masts, so flex might not matter much or you get used to it. With Moses, the setup is super rigid.

Wazza Foil
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby Wazza Foil » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:07 am

omg wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:43 am
Just assembled my 1100 and 82cm carbon mast I received a couple days ago. And that thing is rigid! I had Gong 100cm carbon mast but it had fuselage manufacturing error (props to Gong customer service), but even without that issue, the mast was flexy, night and day compared to 82cm Moses. Not sure if it's fair to compare different length masts, but both torsional and length wise there was so much more flex. However, looking at Gong videos they do all kind of tricks with these masts, so flex might not matter much or you get used to it. With Moses, the setup is super rigid.
You will love the 1100 especially if you have a smaller stabiliser that the 483 eg 420 in my case.
I can get up on the foil with a 6m windwing in a little under 10kn
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