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Moses 2019-2020-2021

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Wazza Foil
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby Wazza Foil » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:31 am

A bit more
I hope not to sound like I’m an expert, far from it, only providing my experience

geron
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby geron » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:40 pm

How about a 90cm stiffer mast for large wings like the w1000?
Is it possible that also the kite fuselage is not stiff enough?
I have really started to like kiting with the w1000 (at first it was difficult) but I think that it is much easier with the slingshot aluminum mast. Does this make any sense?
What would be the stiffest setup for this wing? The 82cm carbon mast?

a99
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby a99 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:31 pm

grigorib wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 am
Looking back at Moses line of 2020 I was lucky to enjoy three wings
- the 679 which replaced my 683s and was just as good
- the 695 which blown life back into my kite fuselage and made it rideable again at lower speeds
- the 800, introduced as windsurf race wing, it worked magic on kite fuselage and allowed even lower speeds than 695 while being more stable than 695 at high speeds.
There was some discussion in forum that 679 is indentical 683s, reading you sentence seems as you replace 683s to 679, did you feel some difference? It can't be that moses released the same wing with different numbers as it's indentical. Where is reason to release it in such case? There must be something difference for sure. But nobody told clear what is difference:

679
https://foilsport.com.au/products/wing-679
Surface 990 cm2
Root Chord 198 mm
Span 679 mm
Aspect Ratio 4,6

683s
https://www.briskites.com.au/2020-moses ... -free-ride
Surface: 1005cm2
Root Chord: 185mm
Span: 683mm
Aspect Ratio: 5.2

There is very substantial differences between tech data of there wings in all parameters. So it's hard to understand why lot of people telling that they are indentical. And as 683s has higher aspect ration it must be faster speed, also even shorter shord. But as bigger 15cm2 probably is not role player for deminishing speed so much. Or?

grigorib
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Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; La Ventana; SPI; Hood River; Tawas, MI
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 1000/421 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:18 pm

a99 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:31 pm
grigorib wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 am
Looking back at Moses line of 2020 I was lucky to enjoy three wings
- the 679 which replaced my 683s and was just as good
- the 695 which blown life back into my kite fuselage and made it rideable again at lower speeds
- the 800, introduced as windsurf race wing, it worked magic on kite fuselage and allowed even lower speeds than 695 while being more stable than 695 at high speeds.
There was some discussion in forum that 679 is indentical 683s, reading you sentence seems as you replace 683s to 679, did you feel some difference? It can't be that moses released the same wing with different numbers as it's indentical. Where is reason to release it in such case? There must be something difference for sure. But nobody told clear what is difference:

679
https://foilsport.com.au/products/wing-679
Surface 990 cm2
Root Chord 198 mm
Span 679 mm
Aspect Ratio 4,6

683s
https://www.briskites.com.au/2020-moses ... -free-ride
Surface: 1005cm2
Root Chord: 185mm
Span: 683mm
Aspect Ratio: 5.2

There is very substantial differences between tech data of there wings in all parameters. So it's hard to understand why lot of people telling that they are indentical. And as 683s has higher aspect ration it must be faster speed, also even shorter shord. But as bigger 15cm2 probably is not role player for deminishing speed so much. Or?
I’ve had two 683s and two 679 wings in my hands, compared them both at home and on water. First of all, the original 633 and 683s wings were heavier wings, the foils with original 633 don’t float on the side. So original 683s was heavier by 70 grams compared to last year 683s.
That was the only difference between original and later versions of 683s.

683s is identical in size, chord length, weight and wingspan (it’s actually about 686mm) to 679. The data they published are flawed unless there’s some special version of 679 (there’s not one I’m aware of).
I noticed that my 683s had a notch more rounded wingtips than 679 (I can post pics if anyone is curious), yet bigwave posted picture of exactly opposite case on this thread viewtopic.php?p=1080470#p1080470
Either a second mould or sanding the product differently at different time.

They’re identical. The most reasonable explanation to 683s->679 transition I heard is to reduce confusion between 683s and 683 which are two very different, completely incompatible wings, yet 683 is dead as dead so rebranding 683s as 679 is a matter of different stencil to paint the number.

683s became popular enough in 2019 and Moses doesn’t rebrand any other wings as “new” so I don’t see any sneaky intent
Last edited by grigorib on Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:30 am, edited 8 times in total.

geron
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby geron » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:54 pm

Does someone know what mast is stiffer for a plate conection? The M82 or the MW85BM with the plate adapter?

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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby omg » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:29 pm

Current M82 is very stiff! I just received mine, wrote abt it on the previous page.
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grigorib
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 1000/421 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby grigorib » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:35 pm

One unanswered question I still have from 2020 wing line perspective is why Moses designed 695 with washout. There no ailerons on the wing. At higher speed that washout would create unnecessary turbulence and instability. Also 695 inherited almost straight leading edge from 550/548 which is not good for shedding seaweed.
The 800 wing has zero washout and as other race wings is smooth and super stable. Yet I don’t really need a wingspan of 800mm and it could be wider, using the area where the little tail is. And maybe with more swept back leading edge to make it easier in seaweed infested water.

So it makes a line on my 2021 wishlist - slightly wider chord, slightly shorter wingspan, no washout, a bit more arrowhead ~800 sq.cm area wing for kite fuselage. I’d buy one

For now - this is my favorite (kept the 695 for now, sold 679 and 683s which was the 2019 wing of choice for me)
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Floating around
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby Floating around » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:31 pm

It seems that Moses is having a bit of a re branding, have seen some pictures of new masts and a bit on the website of SABFOIL with Moses on smaller txt nearby. SAB being the parent company. Nothing amazing just an interesting change.

geron
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby geron » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:49 pm

grigorib, can you explain what you mean by washout?

grigorib
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Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Turbine 9m, SST 4/5/7m, UFO 5/7/9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m

Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/82/91/101cm masts with 800/425 695/425 637/420 1000/421 wingsets, 36" Woody, Slingshot Dwarfcraft Micro 3'6" 2019-2020, MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Moses 80cm alu mast $260
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Re: Moses 2019-2020-2021

Postby grigorib » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:46 pm

geron wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:49 pm
grigorib, can you explain what you mean by washout?
When you see wing shape twisted so wingtips have lower AoA than profile at the root of the wing - that’s called washout. On airplanes it helps to keep outer portion of the wing flying when center starts stalling and that’s to keep ailerons located on outer portion of the wing stay effective and preserve control.
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