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About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

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Kamikuza
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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:19 am

Stance width seems more relevant to me too. Even with the much smaller wing, I had no problems water starting the 127 board.

I've been playing with Photoshop and the 105 just seems ... really short :D especially the nose, puts my front foot right up there. I like a wider stance, and move the front foot depending on how I'm riding eg. over- or under-powered, digging in upwind.

Guess I should just try the 105, I've always got my 145 to fall back on when learning new stuff or really challenging the silly light wind. Like yesterday :D

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:36 am

junebug wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:33 pm
I don’t think 105 is too small. In fact, my biggest board (small dwarfcraft) is about that size. I use it in lighter* wind

*I don’t chase light wind, so take my comments for what they are worth. I use the dwarfcraft in 8/9kn with a 10m LEI. That’s as low as I care to go right now.
10m LEI is my "biggest" foiling kite too. Tried the 12m the other day, and I don't think I gained low end and it's noticeably more cumbersome and harder to keep up.

I'm guessing 8 knots is about my limit too, if that's a strong average. Not the most fun, because there's no swell on the lake, but ok for trying new tricks.

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby tkaraszewski » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:44 am

I rode a 33" Kanaha Shapes board the other day and frankly did not see the appeal. It has plenty of disadvantages, the biggest being that it's significantly more difficult to waterstart because the whole nose of the board rests underwater, compared to my Moses T38, with no big advantage that I saw.

I'm fairly convinced that the main appeal of the exceedingly small hydrofoil board is fashion.
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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:04 am

tkaraszewski wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:44 am
...the whole nose of the board rests underwater...

I'm fairly convinced that the main appeal of the exceedingly small hydrofoil board is fashion.
Huh? How are you water starting?!

Less swing weight, less nose to stick in the water in the trough, less width to catch on the wave face. Not fashion :)

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:46 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:04 am
tkaraszewski wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:44 am
...the whole nose of the board rests underwater...

I'm fairly convinced that the main appeal of the exceedingly small hydrofoil board is fashion.
Huh? How are you water starting?!

Less swing weight, less nose to stick in the water in the trough, less width to catch on the wave face. Not fashion :)

Hmm, disagree with "less nose to stick in the water"...

When too short board and low winds, the nose is under the water indeed, and really difficult to waterstart the shorter the board is, that was what tkaraszewski meant I assume, correctly.

In throughs if the nose catches the water too fast, you are toast, as short boards need to be flat at the nose, whereas almost short boards can have a "superscoop" (noserocker), and will not stick in the water, just pop up again.

In waves, narrow boards is important IMO more than length, if you want a board that dont catch the wave face easily.
Probably many opinions on this, and different riding styles...

Of course narrow and supershort will catch the least, but IF you catch with this nose, you are down, and it takes longer to start again also :o

For low swing weight shorter and lighter boards is key, but it will also catch with its nose if you dont foil 100 % consistent, and it will catch the waves easier.

For me my 88 cm skimboard is only for "fun" - just to do it on rare occasions as really difficult and impractical, it makes absolutely no practical sense, but still fun to do it.

Thus indeed "Fashion" yes, at some point where only downsides when shorter :wink:

My 118 cm is fine as the shortest "practical" board for my size 78 kg, and I have dropped having a 107 or 108 which I have tried and had from several brands both narrow and wide ones, as only downsides for me with these.

8) Peter

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby slowboat » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:22 am

tkaraszewski wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:44 am
I rode a 33" Kanaha Shapes board the other day and frankly did not see the appeal. It has plenty of disadvantages, the biggest being that it's significantly more difficult to waterstart because the whole nose of the board rests underwater, compared to my Moses T38, with no big advantage that I saw.

I'm fairly convinced that the main appeal of the exceedingly small hydrofoil board is fashion.
Respectfully disagree...strongly. Not sure what you mean by "exceedingly" small but boards in the 110-94 cm range make a significant FUNCTIONAL difference. If they are well made and designed (meaning light and stiff with good shapes...my personal experience is with Kanaha 37 and Groove 110), smaller boards makes the foil rig much more agile and quick to turn. Not sure how one can dispute this. There is also a feeling of one's legs being more directly connected to the wing (this may be more subjective) and foiling actually becomes easier (foot switches, hard carves, etc.....in my experience).

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:30 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:46 am
Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:04 am
tkaraszewski wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:44 am
...the whole nose of the board rests underwater...

I'm fairly convinced that the main appeal of the exceedingly small hydrofoil board is fashion.
Huh? How are you water starting?!

Less swing weight, less nose to stick in the water in the trough, less width to catch on the wave face. Not fashion :)

Hmm, disagree with "less nose to stick in the water"...

When too short board and low winds, the nose is under the water indeed, and really difficult to waterstart the shorter the board is, that was what tkaraszewski meant I assume, correctly.

In throughs if the nose catches the water too fast, you are toast, as short boards need to be flat at the nose, whereas almost short boards can have a "superscoop" (noserocker), and will not stick in the water, just pop up again.

In waves, narrow boards is important IMO more than length, if you want a board that dont catch the wave face easily.
Probably many opinions on this, and different riding styles...

Of course narrow and supershort will catch the least, but IF you catch with this nose, you are down, and it takes longer to start again also :o

For low swing weight shorter and lighter boards is key, but it will also catch with its nose if you dont foil 100 % consistent, and it will catch the waves easier.

For me my 88 cm skimboard is only for "fun" - just to do it on rare occasions as really difficult and impractical, it makes absolutely no practical sense, but still fun to do it.

Thus indeed "Fashion" yes, at some point where only downsides when shorter :wink:

My 118 cm is fine as the shortest "practical" board for my size 78 kg, and I have dropped having a 107 or 108 which I have tried and had from several brands both narrow and wide ones, as only downsides for me with these.

8) Peter
Oh I see what you mean about the nose and water-starting. Sure, but I have the same issue with a 145x48 30L board. Which can be a good thing, as it loads the kite rather than drift downwind. Once you're riding, shorter nose is without a doubt better.

As I said before, I noticed little difference in difficultly starting in light wind between my board and the 127. It all hinged on getting a good spike and turn from the kite.

If I catch any length nose, it at best makes for poor balance and a wobble.

As has been said, there is no doubt a law of diminishing returns for shorter boards, and I wonder if that point for bigger, taller riders comes sooner than 105cm...but it's clearly less than 145!

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby junebug » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:52 pm

I’m pretty tall (6’3”) and my stance narrowed dramatically when I started riding a small board. Some of that is probably because I moved the foil back, but it is also because there just isn’t room on the board for a wide stance. I like a narrow stance because it makes footswitches so much faster, which is necessary for me for underpowered tacks, and I love the way carving feels with a narrow stance. In fact, I’m probably going to make an even smaller board in the winter. I’m thinking around 28in.

Fashion has nothing to do with it. For me, at this stage in my foiling progression, it is just so much fun to ride a small board. Yes, it is harder to waterstart, but I don’t chase winds so low that I can’t pop right up on foil with a loop, so the waterstart has never been an issue.

Interesting to see the divergence of opinion on this.

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Interesting. My stance has been mostly getting wider, especially while carving :D Moving my back foot further behind the mast...

Hmm...

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Re: About real small pocket boards < 1 m, benefits and limits

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:22 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:04 pm
Interesting. My stance has been mostly getting wider, especially while carving :D Moving my back foot further behind the mast...

Hmm...

The same for me, having a wide stance makes you able to push harder and more aggressively in turns, and control everything better, in particular the rear foot more rear.

So I only use the narrow stance for relaxing old mans style ha haa (just kidding, individual) :rollgrin:

8) Peter


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