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Question Profile Go Foils ?

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Foil
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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby Foil » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:52 am

Gong will sell you a new G10 wing for less than 200 euro, and they are superb,
That's a price thats not to bad at all, even cheaper than many windsurfer top skegs.
But I have never had a desire to make my own gear after two of us spent loads of time and cash making a windsurfing slalom board, it sailed like a pile of Poo.
Looked crappy as well.
But I do admire it when home made kit looks good like the boards that TW on here makes.

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby TomW » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:34 pm

I've looked into this deeply. Foil designers, even amateurs, are not sharing the profile details as this is a significant part of the magic juice and IP. Yes, there's a lot of other interrelated design parameters, but the profiles are the starting point.

In the surfboard world, they cannot hide outline shapes and they are easy to copy, but no one is publishing rocker curves, bottom sections and fin placement dimension details. This again is the secret juice they try to protect.

The companies in China that are stealing, just buy one of them, 3D scan it and reverse engineer, cutting invisible corners to save cost and navigate their own production inadequacies.

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby lupociotto » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:08 pm

just to mention - I don't work in the surf industry (I'm an environmental engineer). but I do my own surfboards windsurfboards kiteboards snowboards skateboards kiteboards foilboards foils since
1982, just for the fun of it. must be 50 or more boards meanwhile.
Before and parallel I also did a lot of model airplanes.
On the water I also use equipment that I buy. For examle levitaz kitefoils.
the foil wing I want to make now is something that can't be bought anywhere right now, it will be a huge 3300 cm2 pump foil wing that gives me
the same surface weight ration like my friends that pump with the go foil maliko 280 and are much lighter than me.
I would not ask Go for the profile - I understand that they won't give it away.
Meanwhile I know pretty much about the profile that is used, I will find something very similar it is not difficult...

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby Europ2 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:35 pm

lupociotto wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:53 pm
Meanwhile I know pretty much about the profile that is used, I will find something very similar
Found this .... what is your guesstimate ?
GoFoil airfoil section guesstimate.jpg
GoFoil airfoil section guesstimate.jpg (66.21 KiB) Viewed 1061 times

lupociotto
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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby lupociotto » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:17 am

thank you but I have seen go foils on my on live and they are muss less concave

regards wolfgang

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby BWD » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:33 am

Random observations:
Often hydrofoil makers start with a known naca section or similar and scale it to be thinner... and scale other parameters as well. Scaling factors will be different for each parameter, e.g. start with model X “1.0” and modify to “1.1.2” which might be 90% thickness of X 1.0, 105% chord, 92% span...
Having cupping to the bottom tends to limit the top end as i understand it.
Also, about the rockers... people do use different ones, but most are pretty established in shortboards. And longboards. Most shapers buy blanks from a small number of suppliers.
Many recent boards touted to be quite different have rockers almost identical to some ones that have been very successful for decades.
If a board is “Like ‘xxxxxx’ but with a little more tail kick,” or “like a good old old ‘whatever’ except a bit flatter overall”, it will probably work for something.
But if it is like “x” but with 5 channels, extra nose flip, beveled rails and a creative kink toward the tail, not so much.
Originally there was a thing called “natural rocker” which derived from the curve that formed naturally in a balsa plank as it dried. It worked, and was a major influence, maybe THE major influence, on board design for decades after most boards were made from foam (perhaps this was as much because most started as blanks from one factory, or copies of them).
Radical new designs that work are not usually that radical. Or, at least, not radical in every aspect at once! Applies to boards, foils, maybe some other things...

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby cglazier » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:36 am

Dear kiteboarding company,
Please send me the exact details of your product so that I can make a copy. I know that you spent much effort testing and optimizing your product but I think it would be nice if you give me the results of all your development work for free.. that way I don't have to buy your product.

Thank you,
Freeloader
:roll:

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby Europ2 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:21 am

cglazier wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:36 am
Dear kiteboarding company,
(..)
Freeloader
2016 stuff ... worldwide standard in 2019, standard range for competitors that offer Surf/Sup HF (Takuma, Cloud IX, Moses, Naish, Gong, Chinese 300, ....)
(...) Then there is this part inside us trying to understand how things work. That's how Spotz HF and Ketos started in 2010 based on C's models [old debate]
Then, as an individual, one has to decide if he/she publishes his/her findings.
Then, there is a gap between freeloading an airfoil section on airfoiltools and making a full wing that works.
However... since 2017 and the creation of the efoil community, there are interesting trends towards Fusion360 that allow to develop sexy looking 3D Front Wings.... Then mastering composites takes lot of time....

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby Europ2 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:16 pm

cglazier wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:36 am
Dear kiteboarding company,
I think it would be nice if you give me the results of all your development work for free.. that way I don't have to buy your product.
Freeloader
:roll:
That's very 20th century in fact and unlikely to happen. In 2019, it is more fascinating than that and sad somehow. In fact, you can improve [easily ?] the original product without asking anything. You buy/borrow the original product, then you either need a STEM degree or spend a lot of hours learning to :
1 - 3D scan the front wing,
2 - print your wing on a big printer or online (eg Scuplteo but a spare part might be cheaper [220€ for big F wing]) (and/or learn composites in your garage to reinforce it if needed) ....
optional to improve the wing : learn a CAD SW (Solidworks, Fusion360, ...), understand what CFD is (Solidworks, XFLR5 is free...)

The Javelin project: Introducing Javelin’s 3D Printed Hydrofoil Project (January 2018)
Printing the front wing with : Fortus 450MC
In : Polycarbonate or PC (not ABS, too fragile)
Hydrofoil-Testing.jpg
Hydrofoil-Testing.jpg (94.31 KiB) Viewed 527 times

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Re: Question Profile Go Foils ?

Postby kostantin » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:53 am

Greetings,

I have serious doubts about this possibility.

Scanning, I don't believe that the scan is accurate enough, when it comes to the profile. We are talking of less then a tenth of a millimeter. There
a profiles that are extreme sensible at specific points.

Printing,

No material I know is even close on stability to carbon. You have freaking bending and torsion forces on a wing. A printed wing with a profile thickness between
8-9% will make all type of fancy things when you edge the foil.
It is not even good enough to use the printed parts as a platform for profile testing. The plastic is too weak.

Infill
Usually you print with infill. That means that the printed parts will fill up with water in the areas where no plastic is.

Putting carbon or glass on a printed wing. None of the resins I know stick well neither on PLA, ABS or worse Polycarbonate. You will loose any benefits of
a correct printed profile.

Where I see sense in printed parts for a foil are mock ups to pull molds. Either as positive or negative, but only if you are aware that the plastic is getting weak again at 43°

tks

Kosta


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