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some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

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slowboat
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby slowboat » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:04 am

Wave riding with a foil (and kite) is essentially a nascent sport still waiting for "style leaders" to emerge who will influence the rest of us. (remember, until very recently people were asking if it was even possible) People who try to judge it through the lens of wave riding with a surface board are not understanding the sport.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:37 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:04 am
Wave riding with a foil (and kite) is essentially a nascent sport still waiting for "style leaders" to emerge who will influence the rest of us. (remember, until very recently people were asking if it was even possible) People who try to judge it through the lens of wave riding with a surface board are not understanding the sport.

Spot on :thumb:

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby tomtom » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:16 pm

I think people with extensive padle and Sup hf riding exeperiences are trying to ride in same manner on kite hf - same way as we all were trying to "surf" as paddle surfer with kite. And of course real surfers were first which achieved this

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby OzBungy » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 am

plummet wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:57 am
...
Define what wave foiling properly is? Is it trying to copycat surfing with a device that is never going to ride like a surfboard?

....
My initial reaction is, why define it? You'll know it when you see it. It looks good and looks like something I would want to do, even if I can't do it

The only thing I would add to that is, it's not riding along on a foil between the waves or close on the front. There has got to be some element that the wave brings that would be impossible otherwise.

I don't think getting power from the wave really counts. You can do that without a kite and I doubt it is possible to depower the kite enough to be purely wave powered.

The most obvious thing I can think of is using a pitching wave as a giant berm. Think fully cranked transitions with the foil inside the lip and the mast projecting at 90 degrees to the wave face. That would be pretty cool to see.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:22 am

OzBungy wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 am
The most obvious thing I can think of is using a pitching wave as a giant berm. Think fully cranked transitions with the foil inside the lip and the mast projecting at 90 degrees to the wave face. That would be pretty cool to see.
Sounds like Gunnar's last video...

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby gmb13 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:43 am

OzBungy wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:55 am
plummet wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:57 am
...
Define what wave foiling properly is? Is it trying to copycat surfing with a device that is never going to ride like a surfboard?

....

I don't think getting power from the wave really counts. You can do that without a kite and I doubt it is possible to depower the kite enough to be purely wave powered.
You are wrong there. With proper wave wings the wave will engage the with the foil. The kites power is not really an issue, mainly about keeping it in the sky on bottom turns as the foil is really flying towards the kite in that situation. In my recent videos, I am only wave powered and flying the kite like crazy to keep it in the sky. What I am trying to do, both with kites and without, is to get proper top to bottom wave riding. The feeling you get from the wave engaging with the foil and the acceleration you get off the lip of the wave is amazing and addictive. I have high hopes for the Ozone Alpha, and that it will allow me to trust it a bit more when the lines are totally slack when going for the bottom turns. Another issue is getting it on camera. As good as the Noir Matter is, it is still heavy enough to pull the kite out of the sky when I slack the lines on a turn.

--
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Buzzy » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:47 pm

Gunnar is Right, The bigger Wave foils (633 size and bigger) harvest even the smallest amount of energy so you ride the wave as soon as your on it.

You totally ride the wave and you just have to manage the kite

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby cloudsfan » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:38 pm

@Gunnar
Remembering your great riding with the PL Chargers (first generation), don't you think those fast-moving and turning and great drifting kites could be a good match with this new aspect of wave kite foiling (provided one is already proficient on a foil in waves) ?

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:08 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:43 am
You are wrong there. With proper wave wings the wave will engage the with the foil. The kites power is not really an issue, mainly about keeping it in the sky on bottom turns as the foil is really flying towards the kite in that situation. In my recent videos, I am only wave powered and flying the kite like crazy to keep it in the sky. What I am trying to do, both with kites and without, is to get proper top to bottom wave riding. The feeling you get from the wave engaging with the foil and the acceleration you get off the lip of the wave is amazing and addictive. I have high hopes for the Ozone Alpha, and that it will allow me to trust it a bit more when the lines are totally slack when going for the bottom turns. Another issue is getting it on camera. As good as the Noir Matter is, it is still heavy enough to pull the kite out of the sky when I slack the lines on a turn.

--
Gunnar
Good on you Gunnar for pushing the envelope. As we've seen in these discussions over and over, the first thing is defining what you mean by "wave riding" as the variations make a big difference. In emulating "normal" top to bottom surfing, it appears you are hitting the kite capabilities, it'll be interesting to hear if the manufacturers catch up to what you're trying to do. Sounds like you need next level drift, so you can set and forget kite, then re-engage at end of wave. Maybe the Cloud would be worth a try: I tried out them for a while, wasn't a fan of the overall package of pros/cons, but their biggest pro was the lightest inflated kite with the most drift potential. For what you're trying to do, could be a fit?

The other thought: early days of BWS introducing wave kites, Ben Wilson was a big proponent of unhooking in surf to get the maximum surfing experience -- in effect the kite gets you into the wave, then you surf it independent of kite, then clip back in and ride away at end of wave. That also sounds similar to what you're pursuing ... something to consider? I agree that it's not as great a surfing experience if you have to concentrate on actively flying a kite instead of concentrating on the wave. If you had dependable enough drift that you could disengage power with confidence that it will dependably sit there waiting for instructions ... that seems to be the ultimate surfing experience with a kite.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby gmb13 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:49 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:08 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:43 am
You are wrong there. With proper wave wings the wave will engage the with the foil. The kites power is not really an issue, mainly about keeping it in the sky on bottom turns as the foil is really flying towards the kite in that situation. In my recent videos, I am only wave powered and flying the kite like crazy to keep it in the sky. What I am trying to do, both with kites and without, is to get proper top to bottom wave riding. The feeling you get from the wave engaging with the foil and the acceleration you get off the lip of the wave is amazing and addictive. I have high hopes for the Ozone Alpha, and that it will allow me to trust it a bit more when the lines are totally slack when going for the bottom turns. Another issue is getting it on camera. As good as the Noir Matter is, it is still heavy enough to pull the kite out of the sky when I slack the lines on a turn.

--
Gunnar
Good on you Gunnar for pushing the envelope. As we've seen in these discussions over and over, the first thing is defining what you mean by "wave riding" as the variations make a big difference. In emulating "normal" top to bottom surfing, it appears you are hitting the kite capabilities, it'll be interesting to hear if the manufacturers catch up to what you're trying to do. Sounds like you need next level drift, so you can set and forget kite, then re-engage at end of wave. Maybe the Cloud would be worth a try: I tried out them for a while, wasn't a fan of the overall package of pros/cons, but their biggest pro was the lightest inflated kite with the most drift potential. For what you're trying to do, could be a fit?

The other thought: early days of BWS introducing wave kites, Ben Wilson was a big proponent of unhooking in surf to get the maximum surfing experience -- in effect the kite gets you into the wave, then you surf it independent of kite, then clip back in and ride away at end of wave. That also sounds similar to what you're pursuing ... something to consider? I agree that it's not as great a surfing experience if you have to concentrate on actively flying a kite instead of concentrating on the wave. If you had dependable enough drift that you could disengage power with confidence that it will dependably sit there waiting for instructions ... that seems to be the ultimate surfing experience with a kite.
As I have mentioned in the other Wave Foiling thread, I have tried the Clouds, and they also don't do it for me. That said, I have not had time to get used to them, as they were not mine. So far I have been having the best progress with a 6m ReoV5 with a modded bridle and the Hyperlink 7m UL. I can sort of "brake" these kites to stay in front of me. This works ok, but this is not quite what I want. If the conditions warrant it, I do unhook, however the Hyperlink drifts better when totally depowered, so that does not work optimally.

--
Gunnar


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