Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:54 pm

Just to separate this topic from mast length, to take ride height and foil responsiveness out of the topic.

How deep is too deep to get the most out of any given wave? Percentage of wave height?

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9150
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:45 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:54 pm
Just to separate this topic from mast length, to take ride height and foil responsiveness out of the topic.

How deep is too deep to get the most out of any given wave? Percentage of wave height?

I think there is almost no thing as "too deep" in this respect :thumb:

If we only talk about how to get power of the waves as you say, and not about agility and turning and so on.

Out on deep water, where the waves are smaller and faster and quite some distance and period time, the wavemotion extends quite far under the surface eventhough it wears off the deeper you go (bigger radius of the moving water particles) but most imporant very far in front of the waves, thus you would be able to get power even with a huuuuge foil mast buried deep and quite far in front of the wave.

This is why open ocean swells dont work at all for surfing as no steep face at all, but they are perfect for foilsurfing.

And at the shore where the waves jack up, they (the moving power part) will move even further down in the water because of the bottom, eventhough a smaller radius as waves gets closer now and slower.

So here the power extends far below the water but not as far in front of the wave.

But as an open ocean swell will lose its movement relatively fast below the surface, but got a bigger radius, it should give you loads of glide even when wing far under the water, or in front of the wave, I would say.

At least what I think :wink:


Image

8) PF

User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:10 am

I guess it does come down to ride height. I have always felt too high carving in swell or riding bigger swell at the beach. If I ride my current mast (only 88 cm) at the height I want, I can't help feeling my foil is out the back in some of the top turns and on a lot of the small stuff.

The surf and wake industry seem to have settled on much shorter masts than us.

Mossy 757
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1662
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:10 pm
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: First Landing State Park, Virginia Beach Oceanfront
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and board. Cabrinha Velocity 9m, Flysurfer Sonic2 11m, Ozone R1V2 15m
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:38 pm

I also think there's something to be said for perspective. If you're riding a 1m strut at about 50% submerged, you're .5m off the water. If your wave is 1m, you're looking down at this little ripple underneath you that's kind of pushing your foil. Being able to ride down inside the pocket on a smaller strut also seems like it keeps the wave in a more familiar and compact scale so every wave you ride doesn't seem totally lame.

BWD
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3550
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby BWD » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:04 pm

Ive yet to do any “real” wave foiling but love to play in swells and steep chop. What i’ve noticed about foil depth is deeper does slow you down a bit, especially if underpowered/sheeted out.
Whats fun for me is quick-ish turns when powered, letting the board kiss the face of the wave and accelerate back to pretty good height, then turning back toward face again and again.
Another fun thing i’ve enjoyed is riding high in the whitewater of a barely breaking wave or whitecap so one half of the wing is on the surface in front of the wave and the other is covered by the curling whitewater at the “peak” of the chop/wave - kind of like a surfing nose ride. Fun but probably mainly a tiny wave trick.

Personally I like the idea of shorter mast/strut for fastest turning and shallow water, though that might not cut it for high speed/ high power in bigger waves.

ap888
Frequent Poster
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:24 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Zion/K peir/Inver/Goderich
Favorite Beaches: Good wind/Flat water/Good waves
Style: Foil/Loops/Big Air/Strapless
Gear: Ozone Uno V2 4m
North Neo (17) 5m
Cabrinha Drifter (16) 8m
Flysurfer Sonic 2 -11m
Moses
BWS Stallion 5’
CrazyFly Shox Custom 135
Groove Skate
Ride Engine
Brand Affiliation: HFL
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby ap888 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:08 pm

Does mast length 91 compared to 101 have a big difference in handling of wings for carving /riding waves ?

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9150
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:33 pm

ap888 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:08 pm
Does mast length 91 compared to 101 have a big difference in handling of wings for carving /riding waves ?

No, cant really feel the difference in terms of handling in this respect between these two, only if choppy you will ventilate and crash just a tad more often with the 91 than the 101 but you can get used to it so it works okay.

Going even a tad shorter feels really bad, as you will ventilate and crash a lot, besides not being able to carve tight nomore.
Thus I avoid shorter masts for anything but marginal onshore winds, as said quite often now.

So one can choose either a 91 or a 101 cm in waves, depending on what you want, they both work awesome in waves in my experience :thumb:

8) PF

ap888
Frequent Poster
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:24 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Zion/K peir/Inver/Goderich
Favorite Beaches: Good wind/Flat water/Good waves
Style: Foil/Loops/Big Air/Strapless
Gear: Ozone Uno V2 4m
North Neo (17) 5m
Cabrinha Drifter (16) 8m
Flysurfer Sonic 2 -11m
Moses
BWS Stallion 5’
CrazyFly Shox Custom 135
Groove Skate
Ride Engine
Brand Affiliation: HFL
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby ap888 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:42 pm

Nice thanks for the feedback better get 101 then cause I kite on lake super choppy and very short between waves...thanks again

User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 76 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:22 am

Now I'm not saying Peter is wrong, but this thread was inspired by the following:

http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19 ... ast+length

Peter is outside consensus in that one where the majority are settling around 75cm for low aspect wave wings like the 633.

No doubt there are pros and cons and it depends on what you like wrt ride height, chop clearance, wave size and carve angles.

I'm at the same junction. Switching to a 1300 square cm low aspect wing and likely chopping down my 90cm mast.

Have always felt a bit high for the small waves I'm typically foiling in.

Everything I've learned from comparing wave style riding to race style riding, be it windsurfing in the days of old up to what we see the surf foil industry settling on and the race foilers using points to the spectrum having wave riders on the shorter masts with lower aspect ratio wings and racers on long masts with higher aspect wings.

In the same way short lines impacts a kites behavior, you can sort of understand how a shorter mast might impact any given foil.

ap888
Frequent Poster
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:24 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Zion/K peir/Inver/Goderich
Favorite Beaches: Good wind/Flat water/Good waves
Style: Foil/Loops/Big Air/Strapless
Gear: Ozone Uno V2 4m
North Neo (17) 5m
Cabrinha Drifter (16) 8m
Flysurfer Sonic 2 -11m
Moses
BWS Stallion 5’
CrazyFly Shox Custom 135
Groove Skate
Ride Engine
Brand Affiliation: HFL
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Ideal foil depth for wave foiling?

Postby ap888 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:30 am

Well...I’m debating on 91 or 101 for my 633 when I get it in the spring like I said I kite on Lake Huron it can get quite choppy/short between waves my current foil is slingshot hover glide with 90cm mast and it’s just long enough for some sessions not breaching surface going over big chop/waves and would be nice with 101... im not sure if it’s worth staying 91 is the carving and wave riding that much better...? with 10cm shorter mast :)


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bragnouff and 9 guests

cron