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wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

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slowboat
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wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

Postby slowboat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:20 am

It seems like the current popular wave wings are in the 1100 to 1200 cm2 range. For riding small waves, when you are trying to maximize time on wave with depowered kite, wouldn't a larger wing be better? Anyone tried a really big wing in the 1400 to 2000 cm2 range for waves? They won't work well if you are trying to do a bunch of tight top and bottom turns but what about for "longboard" style of just trying to ride the wave energy?

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Re: wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

Postby windmaker » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:25 pm

Not sure as I ride 800 size maximum but only weight 66kg. It's all about wing loading. One reason could be that sometimes you need to outrun the wave, a super large wing could be too slow.

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Re: wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

Postby BWD » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:20 pm

I think increasing wing size benefit is equally about extending low speed performance, reducing uncontrolled acceleration, and increasing pitch stability without getting “locked in” to too much yaw and roll
stability.
733D7D95-430A-45B6-97FC-2959E4ECAEE9.gif
733D7D95-430A-45B6-97FC-2959E4ECAEE9.gif (60.03 KiB) Viewed 953 times
I think the goal for fun and stability is to match needed riding speed range to the flatter middle part of the total drag curve pictured above.
Too big a wing will stick with a wave well but require lots of extra power when you want or need more speed, because it is reaching the steep part of the drag curve. Maybe worse, it might have stability problems or ridiculous pressure/too much lift.

The surface loading and aspect ratio are other factors that have to be added to the balancing act. Definitely AR low enough to reduce inertia helps big wings agility, and low surface loading with this kind if wing can give a softer stall and tolerance of surfacing.

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Re: wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:11 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:20 am
It seems like the current popular wave wings are in the 1100 to 1200 cm2 range. For riding small waves, when you are trying to maximize time on wave with depowered kite, wouldn't a larger wing be better? Anyone tried a really big wing in the 1400 to 2000 cm2 range for waves? They won't work well if you are trying to do a bunch of tight top and bottom turns but what about for "longboard" style of just trying to ride the wave energy?

Agree, even bigger wings can ride with even less wavepower yes, BUT, they are dogs in terms of turning fast.
And they can not accelerate nor go fast without needing kitepower, and this is a major turnoff for some (me t.ex).
Many describe above as "too locked in" :wink:

A 1200 cm2 typical wing, I can ride slower than even the really slow waves thus bigger wings than say 1500 cm2 would probably never do it for me @average weight - often I find a tad smaller wing than 1200 more fun actually.

Only for longboard SUP foils the really big ones seem to work, as you dont really need agility here like on shortboard foils, and you also need to paddle up to foil on almost no waves.

It is all a tradeoff between things and a personal choice, apart from choosing for the given conditions :D

8) PF

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Re: wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:41 pm

I like my 1200 cm2 and with my 60kg i feel it is the largest I need.

But I know that Marc Blanc (pioneer in foil and now concentrated on surf-foil) is using far larger wings with even lower kites like 2.3 m2 (That is why he sold me his former 3.69m2). His aim is to use the kite only to go upwind , then rely on wave energy only with minimum kite power . He should be about 70kg I think.

So for that special objective of pure surf, larger (beyond 1500cm2) is even better (but certainly not all round at all since max speed should be soooooo lowwwww)

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Re: wave riding: why isn't bigger better?

Postby slowboat » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:55 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:41 pm
I like my 1200 cm2 and with my 60kg i feel it is the largest I need.

But I know that Marc Blanc (pioneer in foil and now concentrated on surf-foil) is using far larger wings with even lower kites like 2.3 m2 (That is why he sold me his former 3.69m2). His aim is to use the kite only to go upwind , then rely on wave energy only with minimum kite power . He should be about 70kg I think.

So for that special objective of pure surf, larger (beyond 1500cm2) is even better (but certainly not all round at all since max speed should be soooooo lowwwww)
Yes, this was my thinking in starting this topic. Do you know what wings Marc is using? I think the down wind part will be great with oversized wings and tiny kite but the rest of the time out there will be much more challenging.


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