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First thing first - it’s so awesome to see this conversation as opposed to “large/slow wings are for beginners only, just learn to ride”, which dominated here just a year ago.
So many very proficient riders hopped onto large wings for freeride and race wings are still around, still keeping racers happy as well.

Second, I’d consider Moses one of the affordable ones. The 633/749/483 set costs $800 and with a mast it’s about $1500. A buddy of mine bought a Takuma knock-off on alibaba for $400 which is huge price difference, but I’d assume quality/compatibility gap is there too.

Perhaps the question is why try to save a few dollars when you liked the Onda ?
In the long run it may be a good to have the ability to swap masts and throw on/off a whole different set of fuselages/higher aspect wings And even though I have run the Onda aground (shells, sand, and rocks), it's still ok. Clear coat was easy to sand down to bring back smoothness
I've had the Onda for 1 year now and now barely use my other 3 foils (Moses race wing, 550, Slingshot 545) since the Onda does well plowing thru small fish, wave turbulence, boat wake, weeds and goes fast enough and can surf foil on it) In really large waves, high wind, and wanting to crawl upwind a few more degrees are the only times I swap to another wing. So I am a believer in having at least a second foil...and I have a family member who occasionally likes to go out together
Just thoughts .....and Slingshot, Zeeko, and Naish are good wings too it seems (i have only tried slingshot, zeeko, Lift but not their new large pump/surf foil variety)

Just picked up the latest Stringy wing. It looks like its between 1000 and 1200 square cm. Very thin profile. Slightly thinner than the Zeeko carver wing I was on all last year. Won't get a chance to ride it now until spring.

Thick beefy wings might be important to limit speed on boards meant to catch and ride waves with no other power source, but I bet that drag ends up limiting the fun with a kite.

Makes sense that kite free/wave wings will have to balance big enough area to allow lower speeds with pretty slick profiles to preserve as much glide as possible with a reasonable wing spans to allow for decent carving angles (also relates to mast length).

What is the wingspan of the MFC and Go foils from the surf companies compared to the onda or Keetos that were designed for use with kites?

Huib wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:01 pm

@BWD - Do you think the Ketos 1200 is faster then the Onda? I saw someone who got 44km/h on the Onda. That seems for me pretty fast on such a big wing.
Currently I am considering the Ketos 1200 opposite the Onda with a Groove board. What would be your choice and why?

Cant say for sure which is faster, but there seems to be a slight bias toward speed in french designs, with the legacy of taaaroa, ketos, zeeko etc all having had their first really good wings be smaller and faster, the french users have an expectation that foils shouldnt be too slow. Probably this expectation is there witg moses designers and riders too though, don’t really know.

Top speed is usually rider dependent. Big wings usually are ridden at 20-30km/h and can go faster, depending on how powered and how skilled the user. Most seem to enjoy small to extra small kites though, usually meaning slower top speed. A racer with a 15m kite in good wind might push it to 45, just to see if possible, but instead he would likely use a 9m kite and a race foil and go 50+.


If you might want to travel with a spare wing, ketos has an advantage in that they use one fuse for all wings. Onda has more resellers and probably faster deliveries, ketos is a work of art.
Ketos is all carbon, total weight of foil is under 2.5kg, if that matters to you.

Sombra wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:40 pm

I just ordered the Gong M size surf foil for kite surfing. I'll post my findings here once I got it out on the water.

CU

I have my eye on that foil too. I'm curious to know your opinion after you ride it.

I'm jumping in this thread because it seems relevant, but has someone who's ridden both the Onda 633 and the Lift 170 compare them? What did you like more or less about each foil? Thanks!

Coming back to the topic title "Moses Onda is there better for me". If this is the question than I would answer yes with a certain probability depending on the boundary conditions. The performance of a specific foil set up depends a lot on boundary conditions like the rider size, rider weight, water and wind conditions, kite type, size and line length, board type and size, rider stance, foil position. For e.g. many happy Onda Foilboarders are taller, heavier, using tube kites and are riding slow..

If the conditions are a little different another foil even from a brand that offers foils for only a few years can be better. For the newer foil and foilboard companies it is easier to develop good equipment because they can orientate on what is available and proven to be good and because they have the courage to try something new. A lot of experience with foils cannot guarantee products that satisfy customers. Some very experienced foil companies with a lot of success in competitions as well are not existing anymore and new companies have replaced them in the market because they offered products that satisfied more the customers.

Ehr-hemm: I´m on Onda and weigh around 75kg, 175cm and use foil kites only. It works wonderfully.
One thing is right though- I´m usually doing 20-30km/hr. But its easy enough to get to 35km/hr. Ive found it doesn´t like to be pushed and forced hard upwind. it seems to go better upwind using some finesse. But I´m not a racer..

Huib wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:01 pm

@BWD - Do you think the Ketos 1200 is faster then the Onda? I saw someone who got 44km/h on the Onda. That seems for me pretty fast on such a big wing.
Currently I am considering the Ketos 1200 opposite the Onda with a Groove board. What would be your choice and why?a

The new lighter 633 Onda wing is lighter than the original one from early last year, my old one was way heavier and the top speed was ok but was not great with a definite feel of instability if you pushed it over its speed limit,
I have had 2 new wings since then, both lighter and much faster, and the last one I bought only 5 weeks ago is a peach, so fast and totally stable when I push it hard for maximum speed, it may be just the improved wing but of course I have got better myself so it's a bit of improvement on both the wing and me
I do have a gps speed watch and 42kph is quite easy to hold for long distances, as long as the waves are not too big,
It's fast enough to make me very happy and I love speed.

One thing I like about the heavier 633, I have both, is that the lighter layup does not sink, which is not ideal when dragging back to your board.