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Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

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Knowone
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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby Knowone » Tue May 05, 2020 3:42 pm

I've been riding one for 60 +/- sessions, and have not noticed or felt any speed reduction...
That being said, the torsional stiffness is very evident. My style is always 'on edge', rolling from one turn to the next. The torsional stiffness has allowed for tighter and more 'snappy' turns!
Love my mast!
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BayAreaKite (Tue May 05, 2020 5:06 pm)
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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby BayAreaKite » Tue May 05, 2020 3:53 pm

Foil wrote: just one thing that guys must remember when weighing their masts, the removable base plates weigh a considerable amount, and if your making adaptors for your masts the weight of these is not to be ignored.
This is a good point, which is why all of the mounts and adapter weights are listed on the website as well. It's hard to keep up with all the weights of various custom parts I make and all the different mast lengths, but I try. An 80cm Project Cedrus (1.1kg) + 140x90 mount (0.34kg) is also around 1.4kg.
slowboat wrote: Any response to comments online that your masts might be a big draggy due to its dimensions?
I am very open to this topic, and have been honest from day 1 that Project Cedrus was optimized for weight and stiffness, not drag. This approach has served me well, because in the last 3 years there has been a shift in foil design away from race and speed to bigger and slower free ride wings. These wings desperately need stiffer masts for accurate control, which is why my Lift and MFC customers are most happy with what Project Cedrus has to offer. Wing-foiling is also new, which is much slower than kite, and surf and SUP are markets I cannot afford to ignore either. Finally, Project Cedrus thickness and chord length are exactly the same as Axis at 19x120mm, so it's not that far off the industry benchmark.

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby Adventure Logs » Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 pm

I’m looking for a stiffer mast for my 633 than the 91cm I have so couple questions.

How much lighter is your mast(with adapters) compared to the Moses 91?

How does it connect to the board? It looks like the board connection is separate which I like since it would be easier to pack up that way.

Any chance on possibly making a modular mast where you can add pieces to change the length?

Has anyone ridden both a Moses 91cm mast and this? I’m curious to see if there’s a noticeable difference in stiffness. Thanks.

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby BayAreaKite » Tue May 05, 2020 6:55 pm

Thanks for your questions.

I don't have latest weights for Moses, but again Cedrus weights are on the websites. 90cm mast is 1.25kg, and the lightweight mount is 0.25kg. https://projectcedrus.com/mounting/

Project Cedrus can connect to any board because the mounts are separate machined components and attach to the mast via 2x M8x1.25 bolts. Instead of a press-fit collar that grabs the mast, load transfer occurs bearing between the two surfaces. That is again part of the reason for the increased mast thickness: stiffer connection to boards and fuselages.

I have considered modularity with length but I think the limit would be 5-8cm. Of course it would add weight and cost, but it is an option.

Project Cedrus is noticeably stiffer than the Moses mast, but may feel a bit slower, which is more noticeable on their wings because they are faster than Lift and Axis. Some people, like me, actually prefer a slower foil :lol: The cleanest solution for Moses is actually the custom Stringfellow fuselage, which he will make for Project Cedrus, so no adapter is needed. Some people prefer the wing position of his fuselage anyway. https://www.mackiteboarding.com/stringf ... -fuselage/

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby derek440 » Wed May 06, 2020 3:09 am

This is a great idea, I have just seen this thread. When I wanted to get a moses 633 about a year ago I hesitated at the cost including the mast and saw the adapters I could use with my current slingshot mast making the whole thing much cheaper. I don't like the idea of a very expensive moses mast that after riding both imho doesn't change the ride much over the slingshot alloy mast and sucks you into their proprietary everything. I'm happy with the 633 but often consider a mast upgrade, and this may be a much better option and one I can use when I eventually upgrade, just buying a new glider and adapter which is waaay cheaper. Recently a friend offered me a go on his 633 with carbon mast so I was interested to ride them again back to back after a year on my slingy mast and there is almost no difference to the ride, in fact mine rode better as my wings are in better shape. But a nice new stiff mast that I can keep through several iterations of foils might be an awesome idea. I recently also purchased a Duotona Daytona for racing and the difference in stiffness is pretty amazing, that is one of the things that has got me thinking about upgrading the alloy mast on my freeride rig. Cheers
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BayAreaKite (Wed May 06, 2020 4:31 am)
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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby BayAreaKite » Wed May 06, 2020 4:11 am

Thanks Derek440, I took inspiration for Project Cedrus from the cycling industry. I actually have various steel, titanium, and carbon fiber bike frames that are up to 20 years old. I have upgraded wheels, replaced the groupsets 2-3 times, and made small customizations along the way that keep them feeling new and special to me. I've even had one completely re-painted. Of course modern hydraulic disc brakes and thru-axles have dated them, but other than that they are as light and stiff as anything else currently on the market. A mast is the bike frame; it should be light and stiff, and that's all it really needs to do. So I created Project Cedrus to be that investment in gear that could last up to 20 years, even as colors change and wing shapes evolve. Imagine the cycling industry where you needed to buy a new frame if you wanted new wheels, or if a ski brand required you to buy their boots to ride their skis. I actually find the proprietary nature of foils a hindrance to progress and performance. The carbon masts have certainly improved since I started this 3 years ago, but I still see little benefit to them over the aluminum counterparts that now cost 1/4 the price...

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby Wazza Foil » Wed May 06, 2020 8:26 am

BayAreaKite wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:11 am
Thanks Derek440, I took inspiration for Project Cedrus from the cycling industry. I actually have various steel, titanium, and carbon fiber bike frames that are up to 20 years old. I have upgraded wheels, replaced the groupsets 2-3 times, and made small customizations along the way that keep them feeling new and special to me. I've even had one completely re-painted. Of course modern hydraulic disc brakes and thru-axles have dated them, but other than that they are as light and stiff as anything else currently on the market. A mast is the bike frame; it should be light and stiff, and that's all it really needs to do. So I created Project Cedrus to be that investment in gear that could last up to 20 years, even as colors change and wing shapes evolve. Imagine the cycling industry where you needed to buy a new frame if you wanted new wheels, or if a ski brand required you to buy their boots to ride their skis. I actually find the proprietary nature of foils a hindrance to progress and performance. The carbon masts have certainly improved since I started this 3 years ago, but I still see little benefit to them over the aluminum counterparts that now cost 1/4 the price...
Agree with your comment re aluminum masts.
Carbon look amazing.

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby revhed » Wed May 06, 2020 6:32 pm

BayAreaKite wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:11 am
carbon masts have certainly improved since I started this 3 years ago, but I still see little benefit to them over the aluminum counterparts that now cost 1/4 the price...
Yet you propose and sell them?
R H

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby BayAreaKite » Wed May 06, 2020 6:47 pm

revhed wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:32 pm
BayAreaKite wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:11 am
carbon masts have certainly improved since I started this 3 years ago, but I still see little benefit to them over the aluminum counterparts that now cost 1/4 the price...
Yet you propose and sell them?
R H
R H, did you not visit the website? Project Cedrus is 40% lighter than aluminum masts. It is also stiffer, and works with any wing/board combination. So yes, if the benefits of the product justify its existence and price, I propose to sell it. I would not invest and certainly not attempt to sell a solid carbon mast that is actually HEAVIER than aluminum, in some cases LESS stiff than aluminum, PROPRIETARY to some specific wing combination, and ALWAYS more prone to damage than aluminum... for 4x the price. Please look at the site and all the efforts I've put into this project before the accusatory short-sighted questions. I've for the most part enjoyed the dialogue that's occurred on this forum, but do not find your comment constructive.

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Re: Lightweight carbon mast for any wings

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 06, 2020 8:21 pm

I cant find the fit/adapter to Ketos Fuselages and KFBox on the website?

8) Peter


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