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Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

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vol
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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby vol » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:24 pm

my latest wing 5% thickness, n-10 profile, ar 3, 600x200mm , ~900cm2
low speed is very good, top speed is good (depends on stab)
what is different? feels like wing cutting the water like a knife, very smooth riding in the waves
Last edited by vol on Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby Europ2 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:32 pm

vol wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:24 pm
my latest wing 5% thickness, n-10 profile, ar 3, 600x200mm , ~900cm2
low speed is very good, top speed is good (depends on stab)
what is different? feels like wing cutting the water like a knife, very smooth riding in the waves
I wouldn't have thought that one could go as low as 5% ? Which fiber (Carbon or glass) and which filler have you used ?
n-10 ? What is exactly your airfoil section ? Is it the NACA 2410 thinned down from 10 to 5% ?
Would you have any pictures of the manufacturing process ?
kiteykitekite wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:32 am
5% Thickness :-) You be making most kite designers irate.
I think you have forgotten you are on the Hydrofoil forum so we are designing hydrofoil wings and not kite wings :D

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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby bohme » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:43 pm

vol wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:24 pm
my latest wing 5% thickness, n-10 profile, ar 3, 600x200mm , ~900cm2
low speed is very good, top speed is good (depends on stab)
what is different? feels like wing cutting the water like a knife, very smooth riding in the waves
I like this :-)
Scaling an n-10 to 5% is not a bad choice.
The lower drag coefficient almost compensates for the bigger area.

My latest wing:
Front: 10% thickness, NACA2410, 710x145mm , ~800cm2
Rear: 10% thickness, NACA2410, 430x62mm , ~215cm2
(photo below)
It is so much easier than my old racefoils. Top speed is not much more than 22kn, but my VMG's are just as good as my racefoils.
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vol
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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby vol » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:23 pm

Europ2 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:32 pm
I wouldn't have thought that one could go as low as 5% ? Which fiber (Carbon or glass) and which filler have you used ?
n-10 ? What is exactly your airfoil section ? Is it the NACA 2410 thinned down from 10 to 5% ?
Would you have any pictures of the manufacturing process ?
because it is my 3rd wing, a little prehistory:
The first wing was monofoil, airfoil 2410, 10% thickness and very low AR approx 1000cm2, was really nice, pretty good control, nice rideable, but after few sessions I decided to rebuild it, I removed wing bottom and made it flat, surprisingly but wing performance was improved, was faster, less drag but the same good low speed, plus one unexpectable benefit, when the wing above the water sliding much easier and more control. Later I built additional fuselage with rear wing because mono for me was too much stabless, I like more dynamic riding and jumps.

The second wing, nothing special, hi ar, N-10 airfoil 8% approx 550cm2, 80%-20% glass-carbon, nice speed, stable in strong condition but low speed not good... For this wing also rebuilt boddy-rear-wing, added some layers of carbon because it was too flex.

The latest wing I build inspired dolphin fin, made it with plywood core and fiberglass because of chipper, used tons of glass :D 2x625 triaxial for one side, at the mast body 3x layers, the wing is very strong because I like jumps.
airfoil is N-10 5% http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=n10-il
At this moment I tested with previous rear wing-body, the new one rear wing is also N-10 5% but I can't try it because of carnitine...

Wings are built by press tech because I have lots of twintipe and wakeboards building experience.
The core is wood, for the first wing used paulownia, latest wings with a plywood core, all layers are collected and pressed for couple hours in 60 Celcius.
This process eliminates unwanted epoxy resin and providing the strongest and lightest construction, for example, the first wing version with extra body and rear wing was 800g only, the latest foil is twice heavier but is crazy durable, carbon can be less than 1kg
bohme wrote:
I like this :-)
Scaling an n-10 to 5% is not a bad choice.
The lower drag coefficient almost compensates for the bigger area.

My latest wing:
Front: 10% thickness, NACA2410, 710x145mm , ~800cm2
Rear: 10% thickness, NACA2410, 430x62mm , ~215cm2
(photo below)
It is so much easier than my old racefoils. Top speed is not much more than 22kn, but my VMG's are just as good as my racefoils.
Thanks!
Your wing looks nice :thumb:
I see you use aerodynamic calculations, but think, air is 784 times less dense than water! I don't know how many times forces are different but definitely are.

some pics from proccess
IMG_20200128_150545.jpg
Paulownia core
IMG_20200128_151345.jpg
Paulownia core
IMG_20200131_161557__01.jpg
monowing
IMG_20200208_162934.jpg
monowing and additional body rear wing
IMG_20200208_163004.jpg
monowing and additional adjustable body rear wing
IMG_20200304_104634.jpg
out from the press
IMG_20200304_124120.jpg
dolphin wing almost ready
IMG_20200304_124859.jpg
dolphin wing and adjustable body rear wing
IMG_20200315_161702.jpg
new fuselage and rear wing in progress
IMG_20200324_161115.jpg
concave 3cm
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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby kiteykitekite » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:12 pm

Europ2 wrote:
kiteykitekite wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:32 am
5% Thickness :-) You be making most kite designers irate.
I think you have forgotten you are on the Hydrofoil forum so we are designing hydrofoil wings and not kite wings :D
Except when you see they design hydrofoils as they do kites, thick. I highly suspect given my post disappeared there is a closeted queer ideology enforcing this design facet. Their greatest fear to be outed.

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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby plummet » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:18 am

vol wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:23 pm
Europ2 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:32 pm
I wouldn't have thought that one could go as low as 5% ? Which fiber (Carbon or glass) and which filler have you used ?
n-10 ? What is exactly your airfoil section ? Is it the NACA 2410 thinned down from 10 to 5% ?
Would you have any pictures of the manufacturing process ?
because it is my 3rd wing, a little prehistory:
The first wing was monofoil, airfoil 2410, 10% thickness and very low AR approx 1000cm2, was really nice, pretty good control, nice rideable, but after few sessions I decided to rebuild it, I removed wing bottom and made it flat, surprisingly but wing performance was improved, was faster, less drag but the same good low speed, plus one unexpectable benefit, when the wing above the water sliding much easier and more control. Later I built additional fuselage with rear wing because mono for me was too much stabless, I like more dynamic riding and jumps.

The second wing, nothing special, hi ar, N-10 airfoil 8% approx 550cm2, 80%-20% glass-carbon, nice speed, stable in strong condition but low speed not good... For this wing also rebuilt boddy-rear-wing, added some layers of carbon because it was too flex.

The latest wing I build inspired dolphin fin, made it with plywood core and fiberglass because of chipper, used tons of glass :D 2x625 triaxial for one side, at the mast body 3x layers, the wing is very strong because I like jumps.
airfoil is N-10 5% http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=n10-il
At this moment I tested with previous rear wing-body, the new one rear wing is also N-10 5% but I can't try it because of carnitine...

Wings are built by press tech because I have lots of twintipe and wakeboards building experience.
The core is wood, for the first wing used paulownia, latest wings with a plywood core, all layers are collected and pressed for couple hours in 60 Celcius.
This process eliminates unwanted epoxy resin and providing the strongest and lightest construction, for example, the first wing version with extra body and rear wing was 800g only, the latest foil is twice heavier but is crazy durable, carbon can be less than 1kg
bohme wrote:
I like this :-)
Scaling an n-10 to 5% is not a bad choice.
The lower drag coefficient almost compensates for the bigger area.

My latest wing:
Front: 10% thickness, NACA2410, 710x145mm , ~800cm2
Rear: 10% thickness, NACA2410, 430x62mm , ~215cm2
(photo below)
It is so much easier than my old racefoils. Top speed is not much more than 22kn, but my VMG's are just as good as my racefoils.
Thanks!
Your wing looks nice :thumb:
I see you use aerodynamic calculations, but think, air is 784 times less dense than water! I don't know how many times forces are different but definitely are.

some pics from proccess

IMG_20200128_150545.jpgIMG_20200128_151345.jpgIMG_20200131_161557__01.jpgIMG_20200208_162934.jpgIMG_20200208_163004.jpgIMG_20200304_104634.jpgIMG_20200304_124120.jpgIMG_20200304_124859.jpgIMG_20200315_161702.jpgIMG_20200324_161115.jpg
NICE!
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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby grigorib » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:43 pm

Speaking of surf/wave wing, say of 2000 sq.cm. which would you opt for - high aspect like a glider or low aspect somewhat shovel-shaped?

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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby TomW » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:29 pm

I suspect we'll be seeing some bigger wings coming out, 900-1200 cm2 with higher aspect and thinner profiles

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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby vol » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:14 pm

If you guys have some ideas I can built it, because I not using molds, for me is no problem to make different shape

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Re: Surf/wave wing thickness and NACA profiles

Postby lyznicek » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:37 pm

Hey,
I am thiking about similar profile to naca2410 just a bit sharper in order to lower the drag for speed. The results from XFLR seems opposite... what do you think? Cheers
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