Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
Laughingman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:35 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Kettle Point, Mitchell's Bay, Rondeau Bay
Favorite Beaches: Kettle Point, Mitchell's Bay, Rondeau Bay, Long Bay, Cayo Guillermo, La Ventana
Gear: Ocean Rodeo Gen6 Flites 10m, 12m Gen2 Roams 6m and 8m, Cloud D 4.8, 6.2, 8.0, 10.4
Xeon Laluz, Mako Wide 150, Jellyfish Custom surf board quad fin 6', LF Impulse Foil and Kanaha Shapes 37" board
Engine Harness with slider
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby Laughingman » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:43 pm

I think the bigger wing is useful once you have passed learning how to foil in a straight line. When you are ready to start learning to gybe the larger foil will make it easier to learn. Until then I would stick with a medium aspect foil, learn to control it at speed, S Turns, etc... then when you are ready to start moving past the basics get a bigger wing to give you the increased glide help you stay on foil through the turns.

cwood
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby cwood » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:49 am

slingshot hoverglide on 24" mast and eliminator (long) board with mast to rear of tracks. Anyone with decent kite skills can be popping onto the wing in one good session. Tough as nails as well, no real sharp edges but heavy!

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3094
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand, Habo Ljung, Lomma
Gear: TW Surfboards 5-0
TW Surfboards hydrofoil board 90,105,110cm
Moses Fluente 550/590 + 330/325 and 633 se
Ozone Hyperlink 9mUL, 7m
Hyperlink V2 13m
Concept Air Wave 4,5m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby TomW » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:43 pm

It's really hard to get consistent advice, and as we have learned we forgot how difficult it was. Also, there's no objective/ comparative information on what really is easiest to learn on.

But based on what I did ( learned on long mast and smaller wing) , I would get a 60-70 cm mast and a 90-95 mast. Then a 900cm2 wing to start. Then get a 1200cm2 wing after first 50 hours.
A 135 cm -140 cm board will be good first 100 hours.
You should look for a mast wing module system from same brand, and get a board from same brand.
Finally use foothooks first 50-100 hours. Then go strapless.

A short mast is not really 100 % needed as long as you are dedicated and have access to deep water spots.
Short mast will allow more learning steps and lower steps. But overall time to full length mast is probably the same as diving in to full length from the start.

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2049
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 wingsets, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot RPM 11m 2018 $600, Core XR4 10m $900, Core XR4 13.5m $980, Core XR4 17m $1075, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, 2019 Slingshot Guardian 17" brand new $260, 2018 Slingshot Guardian 20" bar $190
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 140 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:50 pm

^^^ what he said
- 24-28” mast
- 800-1000 sq.cm. wing
- modular mast/wings system

Some more advice in earlier post
viewtopic.php?p=1031386#p1031386

juandesooka
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1026
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:05 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Sooke, BC, Canada
Style: Canada's Kai Lenny (in my mind)
Gear: Ocean Rodeo / Stringy Foil / Slingshot Surf Foil
Brand Affiliation: Open to offers
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby juandesooka » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:31 pm

Don't go alibaba. Quality is too variable, you won't know if your problems are normal learning curve or crappie gear. Instead buy a name brand used with a plan to resell when you want to upgrade. It will hold it's value vs alibaba.

Every brand has a basic entry foil now. Slingshot hover glide. Naish thrust. Cabrhina double agent. Etc. All would work fine to learn.

I am a fan of Slingshot. ...have seen several people now learn easily with the really shortf flight school masts.

I agree with using foot hooks to start. Quite challenging to learn strapless.

Hugh2
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:38 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Central Illinois
Favorite Beaches: Cape Hatteras and Cape Town
Style: freeride
Gear: Cabrinha Nomad 5.5, Best Cabo 6, Naish Pivot 7, 9, and 11, Cabrinha Vector 12, Best Bularoo 16
Long Ocean 136 and 138, Cyclone 136, Airrush Master 139, Fone Surf 5'11", Naish Global 6'0", Cyclone 6’0”, Slingshot Hoverglide foil and Converter board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby Hugh2 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:15 pm

Grigori, why do you suggest a 24" mast? I know you and others have learned on tall masts, but I think you forget how painful it was. You watched three of us learn on the 15" mast before moving to 24", and in my opinion that is the sensible thing to do, it mostly removes the fear factor from learning because most of the time when you come off the foil you just continue riding on the water, and if you really fall you don't have the wings on the end of a long mast to cut you up, plus the fall is gentle compared with coming off a longer mast which means you are higher out of the water. As far as I can see, all companies now offer something equivalent to the 15/24/36" mast progression and it makes compete sense to me to go that way.

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New brighton beach-Derby pool end,Wallasey, near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: holidays - Flag beach fuerteventura
Home - New Brighton,Rhosneigr, Ainsdale, Fleetwood, Newbrough
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Groove Skate 130, naked carbon,gold stripes
Moses T38 black, 2020 edition
Indiana foil 120cm
101cm amd 82cm Moses Carbon masts
Moses- 633
Ozone V2 Hyperlink 7mtr
Ozone Chrono V3 UL foil kites - 9/11/13
Ozone Hyperlink V1 ultra light 5mtr
Ozone compact V4 bars,click in, 15-23 mtr lines
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby Foil » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:26 pm

I believe some shops did let you buy the Slinshot starter kit with school masts then give you back your money for the kit when you move on to a lighter, more advanced bit of kit,
Makes sense as my hoverglide kit and alien air board was replaced after only two weeks, god it's heavy!
But then the "fun" started as I was weeks trying to get to where I was on the hoverglide,

It is one stable bit of kit,. You don't realise this as when you start out even the hoverglide feels like trying to sail a massive lump of jelly that has not set properly.

Then you buy smaller lighter gear with long mast and realise what unstable really means😂😂😂
All good fun!

User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:30 pm

I just learned to foil a couple of weeks ago ... so I am an "expert" on learning (although it has to be said that nobody went through the learning process more than once on different equipment, so hard to make really meaningful comparisons).

I learned on a Zeeko alloy foil with a carver wing. Full length (90cm) mast & (I believe) 710 cm wing, & a 4'6" SS Dwarfcraft.

The first couple of sessions were brutal - felt like I was making no progress at all on getting up. The wind was too light - don't bother going out unless you have close to 15 knots of wind (& certainly don't try to go out in 10 knots or less). You want to be able to keep the kite in the air without too much concentration - you will be "concentrating" enough on the damn foil. Without power in the kite & without the ability to pop up onto the foil, the foil is just a big, heavy anchor. You need a decent amount of power in the kite so that it is not back stalling as you are trying (without the learned skills) to get the board to get up on the foil.

People learning with short masts were definitely having an easier time of it in the initial sessions. The key for me was (surprise!) learning to keep enough front foot pressure ... but also important was adopting a more narrow stance. This minimizes the amount of "over-compensation" you do shifting your weight around. The weight adjustment really needs to more subtle than you imagine.

Once I popped up on the foil it was a matter of gradually feeling the balance point for the foil. Lots of crashes, but as the rides get longer, you have more of an opportunity to dial in the foil. It seemed to me that the people on shorter masts had an easier time of it initially, but there was a tendency to get stuck on the shorter masts which definitely limits the progression to the next phase. So, a short mast is a useful learning tool ... but only for the first two or three sessions. Falling repeatedly, at speed, from a full length mast is painful, but I managed to keep clear of the foil when falling - just use the kite to carry you away from the board & don't try & "hang on" after you lose balance.

I'm not sure about a "big" board. The downside of a big board is that it's heavier & bulkier, which makes it harder to carry, harder to manoeuvre in the water & harder to get on its side to water start. I would go for something like the 4'6" Dwarfcraft, or a little larger. I had tried, last year, with a converted (smaller) race board & found it impossible to handle.

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2049
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m standard, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Radical6 138, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts with 590/330 695/425 683s/450 wingsets, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Micro 3'6", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: Slingshot SST 6m 2018 $480, Slingshot RPM 11m 2018 $600, Core XR4 10m $900, Core XR4 13.5m $980, Core XR4 17m $1075, Slingshot Turbine 5m 2017 like new $450, BROkite carbon board 140x44cm like new complete $650, Slingshot Rally 6m 2017 like new $530, 2019 Slingshot Guardian 17" brand new $260, 2018 Slingshot Guardian 20" bar $190
.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 115 times
Been thanked: 140 times

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:32 pm

Hugh2 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:15 pm
Grigori, why do you suggest a 24" mast? I know you and others have learned on tall masts, but I think you forget how painful it was. You watched three of us learn on the 15" mast before moving to 24", and in my opinion that is the sensible thing to do, it mostly removes the fear factor from learning because most of the time when you come off the foil you just continue riding on the water, and if you really fall you don't have the wings on the end of a long mast to cut you up, plus the fall is gentle compared with coming off a longer mast which means you are higher out of the water. As far as I can see, all companies now offer something equivalent to the 15/24/36" mast progression and it makes compete sense to me to go that way.
I learnt on 36" and it wasn't easy - it took 4 sessions before I could ride (on a straight line for longer period of time). I think moving mast 1-2" back (from proper position, which any good rider can set the foil for) while learning is a good easement step.

15-16" mast is alright for first couple of sessions but it porpoises so much I had challenges riding 16" last summer - I had to make effort not to edge and stay very low which wasn't easy for me and it would probably hinder progression after first couple of sessions on it.

As of falling - yup, pull the bar, and fall as far downwind of the foil as you can :)

24-28" mast is a good piece of gear to keep for future shallow water riding and 15-16" mast is a good piece of equipment to trade in.

matanshapira
Medium Poster
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:47 pm
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?

Postby matanshapira » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:19 am

My recommendation is:
Not large,beginner wing(such as LF Rocket) with short mast for 20-25 hours Then long mast for 4-8h, then large wing(such as LF Impulse).
Worked well for me, allowed me to advance faster than others


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: direnc, Øyvind and 4 guests