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Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:35 am
by Hugh2
So, any beginner should read the two posts above by Flyboy and Grigori, because learning on a tall mast today simply makes no sense, especially for anyone who is not young and crazy. When you have the option of starting on a short mast for a few extra bucks it makes all the sense in the world to me. But Foil is also correct that the Hoverglide set up is so stable, once you learn on that, you later have to make yet another learning transition to lighter gear. I have yet to make that transition, because each time I try one of Grigori's carbon foils I simply get tossed off it, so have not been willing to fork over the cash to get one that I can persist on. Given my age, ability, and lack of patience, I am now happy to stick with the Hoverglide. Indeed, I decided to go the other direction, to a large stable old rubberized surfboard to which I mounted my Hoverglide foil. For me this allows two things. First, I don't bother with getting the board on its side for starting, I let it sit as normal, lift my feet onto the board with the kite high, and then dive the kite to lift me onto the board and away onto the foil (just like I water start with a regular surfboard). Second, I can now do touchdown gybes instead of crashing and having to restart to go the other direction. I realize this is limiting my progression to true foiling transitions, but I don't care!
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:33 pm
by Aspiremr
Above post by Flysurfer sums it up from my experience.
Short mast makes the initial sessions so much easier.
Im 2 months in to the learning journey, on a Cabrinha DOuble Agent. Great foil to learn, but I can already feel I will outgrow it quickly.
Have watched friends variously learn on an Axis, the Duotone, and the Zeeko Carver. All have gotten there, and all have enjoyed the journey.
Pick any major brands learner foil, short to medium mast, narrow stance, super bendy knees as you then adjust to he foils rise and fall much easier. And away tyou go.
Worth the effort, what a feeling. The first gibe you complete while up on the mast, what a feeling.
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:40 pm
by grigorib
Hugh2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:35 am
So, any beginner should read the two posts above by Flyboy and Grigori, because learning on a tall mast today simply makes no sense, especially for anyone who is not young and crazy. When you have the option of starting on a short mast for a few extra bucks it makes all the sense in the world to me. But Foil is also correct that the Hoverglide set up is so stable, once you learn on that, you later have to make yet another learning transition to lighter gear. I have yet to make that transition, because each time I try one of Grigori's carbon foils I simply get tossed off it, so have not been willing to fork over the cash to get one that I can persist on. Given my age, ability, and lack of patience, I am now happy to stick with the Hoverglide. Indeed, I decided to go the other direction, to a large stable old rubberized surfboard to which I mounted my Hoverglide foil. For me this allows two things. First, I don't bother with getting the board on its side for starting, I let it sit as normal, lift my feet onto the board with the kite high, and then dive the kite to lift me onto the board and away onto the foil (just like I water start with a regular surfboard). Second, I can now do touchdown gybes instead of crashing and having to restart to go the other direction. I realize this is limiting my progression to true foiling transitions, but I don't care!
Hugh, I think you should try to swap your H5 wing for Ken's H2 (on the rest of your setup) and you will like it. It's about 30% increase in wing size and it would feel pretty good. Also my last wing you tried was 548 and since then I got 590 and 633 wings which are easier to ride and are worth trying, we just need to mount them to board you like.
Many shops were offering Hoverglide with H2 wing last fall and I''d say it's better beginner setup than H5
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:25 pm
by drsurf
Aspiremr wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:33 pm
Above post by Flysurfer sums it up from my experience.
Short mast makes the initial sessions so much easier.
Have watched friends variously learn on an Axis, the Duotone, and the Zeeko Carver. All have gotten there, and all have enjoyed the journey.
The short mast I agree with.
However enjoying the journey to be able to foil comfortably???
I f%#@ng hated the journey! How is it enjoyable to be repeatedly falling off your foilboard and dropping your kite when you were ripping it on a twin tip and surfboard for years? Not to mention trying to avoid all the sharp and pointy bits when you jackknife, or those viciously out of control downwind runs when you pull out of a gybe toeside with the kite low and powered up with 1m swells directly ahead of you
Now I can foil comfortably, the journey is starting to become more of a distant memory. But no so distant that I forgot what I wrote above!
Also seeing others on the start of the learning curve does bring back those dreadful memories. So I offer my sympathy to those poor people learning with clichés like "a bit more practice and you'll be foiling for more than 2 metres" or "you'll avoid falling on the foil after the first time you do it and cut yourself up"
Have fun, Dave
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:34 pm
by Flyboy
drsurf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:25 pm
Aspiremr wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:33 pm
Above post by Flysurfer sums it up from my experience.
Short mast makes the initial sessions so much easier.
Have watched friends variously learn on an Axis, the Duotone, and the Zeeko Carver. All have gotten there, and all have enjoyed the journey.
The short mast I agree with.
However enjoying the journey to be able to foil comfortably???
I f%#@ng hated the journey! How is it enjoyable to be repeatedly falling off your foilboard and dropping your kite when you were ripping it on a twin tip and surfboard for years? Not to mention trying to avoid all the sharp and pointy bits when you jackknife, or those viciously out of control downwind runs when you pull out of a gybe toeside with the kite low and powered up with 1m swells directly ahead of you
Now I can foil comfortably, the journey is starting to become more of a distant memory. But no so distant that I forgot what I wrote above!
Also seeing others on the start of the learning curve does bring back those dreadful memories. So I offer my sympathy to those poor people learning with clichés like "a bit more practice and you'll be foiling for more than 2 metres" or "you'll avoid falling on the foil after the first time you do it and cut yourself up"
Have fun, Dave
I'm with you there. The first "failed" sessions are no fun at all: humiliating, frustrating, baffling - those are the words that come to mind!
A shorter mast definitely seems to make the learning process less intimidating & reduces the violence of crashes ... however, it seems to me that it's perfectly doable with a full length mast - the important thing is to go out in the right conditions: ca. 15 knots, side shore winds, deep water, not too wavey. My "failed" sessions were mostly about difficult conditions: light wind, onshore, wavey. When I went out in a decent amount of wind, at least I never dropped the kite. Dropping the kite is the final level of humiliation & frustration.
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:27 pm
by grigorib
first foil sessions were about learning boardstarts again. Disappointing a bit (primarily because of all the previous twintip/direcional experience) but first glides above surface you make are amazing. Well worth it.
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:34 pm
by Windigo1
The Shinn foil is ridiculously easy to learn on. With the Jackson 145 board P wing and 60cm most people are riding in less than one hour often 15 minutes. It makes a great lightwind foil after that. You can ad a faster wing and long mast when you are ready to go faster.
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:38 pm
by kitegirls
Windigo1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:34 pm
The Shinn foil is ridiculously easy to learn on. With the Jackson 145 board P wing and 60cm most people are riding in less than one hour often 15 minutes. It makes a great lightwind foil after that. You can ad a faster wing and long mast when you are ready to go faster.
I didnt even think about Shinn. Do you have a lot of experience /beginner experience and has anyone else tried Shinn Foils?
Re: Best Foil for Absolute Beginner?
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:07 pm
by bragnouff
Short mast makes it less intimidating, but it'll also transform any breaching into a fall.
The advice I had been given for my first day was "do not foil". Do whatever is required to prevent the foil from lifting you up at speed, then do brief controlled flights. On a full sized mast, I guess you've got a bit more room to lift and go back down. 40 or 60cm wouldn't give that much room for error.
Short mast makes taxiing to suitable depth much easier of course.