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starting on duck tack to toeside

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Peter_Frank
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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:51 pm

stevez wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:30 pm
OzBungy wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 am
The advice to not lean back is good, as far as it goes. But you see Tucker lean way back in every tack. He is centred above the board, but the mast and board are well cranked over.

He does lean back quite hard to initiate the tack, with the knees slightly bent, but then once the board is turning upwind he almost immediately seems to spring up a little and straighten up. So when he goes through the apex he is quite upright and lightly weighted on the foil.

Exactly :thumb:

Also, one can NOT compare this to half a 360, as one can do a really hard lean back 360 also - for me these are easier than "stand upright ones" as I am used to leaning back, especially when doing the 360 up in a steep wave you get horizontal for a while - awesome.

Some do 360s standing very upright (Øyvind and Greg as an example), others lean back as you dont have to stand upright in any part of a hydrofoil 360.

Wish I was better at doing upright direction changes, as this is necessary to go toeside "whenever" you want yes :roll:

8) PF

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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby DukeSilver » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:01 pm

I've been learning this move for the last 5 or 6 weeks. I initially started with the intention of learning 360s but the tack was a happy bonus. I actually found the Tucker video really helpful. Good repetition of the move and shots of what the kite is doing during the transition. I found actually watching and copying what he was doing in the video rather than listening to his description of what he is doing was key. He does lean back a bit, and cranks over pretty hard to initiate the carve upwind.

The things I focussed on when learning were -

* Have decent speed going into the move. Beam reaching rather than pointing upwind prior to initiating the tack helped.
* Once the kite is approaching 11, push the bar right out to allow an easier upwind carve.
* Only having my back hand on the bar close to the centre lines throughout the move.
* Once close to halfway through the upwind carve, pull back down on the bar and initiate the kite loop. At the start, I was looping the kite too late, losing the power I needed to ride out of the transition cleanly. Though it felt strange at first, starting the kite loop much earlier was the real game changer that made the biggest difference to success with the tack.

I'm now at the stage where I'm pulling off 70% - 80% of my tack / 360 attempts using my Hyperlink and 50% - 60% when using my smaller tube kites. Just practice and make adjustments if things aren't working and you'll get it in no time.
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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby oregonkiter » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:52 pm

What really helped me, besides doing 1000's of attempts, is pushing the bar away as far as possible, then sheeting in pretty hard after rotating through the wind. This is not initially intuitive. I got an on the water mini-lesson from a local, who does them by completely letting go of the bar as he rotates through the wind.

I have a stopper on my bar, and slid it several inches farther away. I forced myself to feel the bar hit the stopper before I did my rotation and KEEPING it there. Helped me break the habit of sheeting back in too early.

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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby tswierkocki » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:03 pm

What helps me with this tack is leaning into my chicken loop line. If my chest is touching my chicken loop line during the tack I normally have a good tack.

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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby TomW » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:55 pm

Tack and toe to heelside tack are the 2019 project for me...

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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby revhed » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:37 am

No such thing as "duck tack to toe side"!
BUT correct definitions are often lacking here on K F, examples STRUT, RAM AIR, KITE BOARDING ECT!!!
There is tack to toe side where feet are not changed in stance, enter upwind tack turn heel side, ride away toe side.
But by definition a duck tack requires stance change and normally the same rotation direction as board,
meaning one enters heel side AND rides away heel side.
There is also tack where rider rotates opposite direction of board; known in French as "virement de board", not sure in English?
Much better to discuss with the as close as possible word definitions one would think?
So strange that the word "STRUT" is well accepted as the anti compression part of an L E I kite, the correct word, read the definitions....
same word for what most here INCORRECTLY call a mast which is for hanging sails on!! Again read definitions...BUT alas.... :roll:
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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby grigorib » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:04 pm

Look, we call a plastic piece “donkey dick” and any donkey would be offended by assumption that it is as short and thin :)

In some languages “mast” is used for radio tower. Hanging sails or wire or fuselage...there’s difference but maybe “pole” or “keel” or “support fin” would be even better term because of support it provides and directional function it serves.
Maybe LEI should be rather ILE, at least in English :)
But certainly “foil” is a prettier word than ram air, just as “foil” (both noun and verb) is a better term than KBHF and similar crazy acronyms.

Languages (except Latin) are live things, that’s why 16’th century texts pretty much need a translator. Let it live

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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby cglazier » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:39 pm

Tacking and gybing are established sailing terms. For reference:
"Tacking is the maneuver of turning between starboard tack and port tack by bringing the bow (the forward part of the boat) through the wind." I does not matter what the sailor does with his feet or body.

There are several ways to tack. The normal tack (sometimes called the duck tack) is the most efficient in terms of maintaining speed and upwind progress. Here are my favorite videos..

How to Foiling Tack
Foiling Basics
Foil Tack synchrony
How to Foil Tack

I have found this a difficult but rewarding trick to learn. Being well powered in steady wind with a big kite and flat water all help.

:wink:
CG
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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby DukeSilver » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:43 pm

cglazier wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:39 pm
Tacking and gybing are established sailing terms. For reference:
"Tacking is the maneuver of turning between starboard tack and port tack by bringing the bow (the forward part of the boat) through the wind." I does not matter what the sailor does with his feet or body.

There are several ways to tack. The normal tack (sometimes called the duck tack) is the most efficient in terms of maintaining speed and upwind progress. Here are my favorite videos..

How to Foiling Tack
Foiling Basics
Foil Tack synchrony
How to Foil Tack

I have found this a difficult but rewarding trick to learn. Being well powered in steady wind with a big kite and flat water all help.

:wink:
CG
This is correct. Of course it's a tack or a gybe - regardless of whether you change feet or not. If you take the nose of the board through the eye of the wind and travel back in the opposite direction, you have tacked. Same for the gybe. To call it a carve if you don't swap feet is incorrect.

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Re: starting on duck tack to toeside

Postby Slappysan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:03 pm

DukeSilver wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:43 pm
This is correct. Of course it's a tack or a gybe - regardless of whether you change feet or not. If you take the nose of the board through the eye of the wind and travel back in the opposite direction, you have tacked. Same for the gybe. To call it a carve if you don't swap feet is incorrect.
I think you are getting too caught up on the sailing terms of tack / jibe here. Remember they are more about switching the boom of the sail boat to the other side of the boat, something that we don't have limiting us in kitesurfing. Kitesurfing is much more free and dynamic.

It's like someone saying that a carving 360 is really called a tack-jibe. Or someone saying that downwind carving is really called multi-jibing.


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