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First foilkite

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seglarn98
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First foilkite

Postby seglarn98 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:06 am

Hi!

I have been out kitefoiling a few times now and I am hooked. I have a north speedster and have been using an old spleen q 9m.

I got the option to buy a FS Speed 3 Deluxe for a good price(~350 eur with bar), would that be an ok first foilkite? My goal is to be able to foil from 7/8 knots.

My main question is of safety and performance of the speed 3, is it worth getting as a first ram or should i invest in something newer?

I am 70 kg. I have a lot of experience with splicing and dyneema, so maintenance shouldn’t be a problem as long as there is a manual for the bridle lengths. I’ve read that line maintenace is a big drawback with old ram kites.

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Re: First foilkite

Postby ap888 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:30 am

Save your $$ buy a new kite to risky to buy used kites plus the mixer/bridle could be all out of whack....recommend getting a Flysurfer soul or any new kite will be fine would personally pick from Flysurfer or Ozone :thumb:

Unless...you really enjoy tinkering around and tuning your bridle line lengths to make a used kite fly like new...if the kite bridle comes out of tune

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jakemoore
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Re: First foilkite

Postby jakemoore » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:49 am

Speed 3 is a pretty nice kite and will fly in less wind than your tube kite. Whether you can make it in 7 knots is hard to say. It depends on lulls and how easy it is to get to deep water.

The bridle is made of robust material and line plans are published. I also think the design is stable enough people aren’t talking about bad problems with ageist.

Under 10 knots, deluxe is a must, but the thinner fabric becomes porous sooner. It really depends on how used the kite is.

seglarn98
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Re: First foilkite

Postby seglarn98 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:24 am

jakemoore wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:49 am
Speed 3 is a pretty nice kite and will fly in less wind than your tube kite. Whether you can make it in 7 knots is hard to say. It depends on lulls and how easy it is to get to deep water.

The bridle is made of robust material and line plans are published. I also think the design is stable enough people aren’t talking about bad problems with ageist.

Under 10 knots, deluxe is a must, but the thinner fabric becomes porous sooner. It really depends on how used the kite is.
Hi!
Thanks for replying:)

The kite is from 2011 and one owner. He says he’s flown it about 40 times. The pictures all look good, no damage and the fabric doesn’t look too worn. I haven’t seen it in person though.

Do you think a 12 m2 is reasonable to fly a bit underpowered in 8 knots? (saw that I forgot to post the size in the original post, oops)

I come from sailing,(moth, 49er, Nacra17) so tinkering with settings will not be an issue. Besides from it’s condition, is the model ok or is it miles behind the recent designs?
How is it cost/performance wise compared to a (2016/17) +1000 eur second hand race kite?
Last edited by seglarn98 on Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

seglarn98
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Re: First foilkite

Postby seglarn98 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:31 am

ap888 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:30 am
Save your $$ buy a new kite to risky to buy used kites plus the mixer/bridle could be all out of whack....recommend getting a Flysurfer soul or any new kite will be fine would personally pick from Flysurfer or Ozone :thumb:

Unless...you really enjoy tinkering around and tuning your bridle line lengths to make a used kite fly like new...if the kite bridle comes out of tune
Hi!
Thanks for the reply.

I do like tinkering, currently building my own carbon foil setup. The speedster is just on loan.

The biggest factor for me is performance/eur. I would rather spend more if it is safer/better as long as the difference is big enough.

My thought was that this might be a good first ram, learning settings/flying and also crashing. I’ve read that it is very different from leis. I would rather learn on something like this one if the risk of mucking it up is big.
Then I could buy something more raceoriented once I’ve learned. Does that seem like a good idea or a bit dangerous?

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Re: First foilkite

Postby kitexpert » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:26 am

seglarn98 wrote:He says he’s flown it about 40 times.
If that is true that sounds good.
jakemoore wrote: bad problems with ageist.
Under 10 knots, deluxe is a must, but the thinner fabric becomes porous sooner. It really depends on how used the kite is.
This. If fabric is porous it is serious problem. Not only fabric is problem but seams start to leak also, Speeds don't have glued seams.
seglarn98 wrote:The biggest factor for me is performance/eur.
If price is 350€ for complete set and if it is in good shape performance/eur is unbeatable. I'd take good Speed3 dlx any day before FRS's, Hyperlinks or Pulsions because I know Speed3 has better upwind performance, better boosting and more hangtime. Technically Speed3 is more advanced than these mid AR kites. Soul is in class of its own of course.
seglarn98 wrote:I’ve read that it is very different from leis.
All foil kites are different to LEI's and difference in feel is more evident the bigger kite is. After using fast LEI's foil kites feel slow and soft but when you get going they produce smooth forward pull and more of it than LEI's.

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Re: First foilkite

Postby Breze » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:07 pm

With your 70kg you could use also a 10m. Bummer there is no Speed3 in 10m.
As said bevor porosity of the dlx is the main prob.
The Speed Lotus has a much longer lasting cloth in terms of porosity. When crashed hard, the Lotus is prone to internal damage, but can be fixed by yourself with sailtape.
The 10m Speed Lotus would be the money for value winner with your 70 kg If you find one.
Sweet light kite with good relaunch, bc cloth is very air&watertight and untangels very good bc of the silk, smooth Lotus. Good allrounder

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Re: First foilkite

Postby jakemoore » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:16 pm

Speed is not a race kite. More free ride as are Hyperlink and Soul. Very stable. I would not compare it to even the free race kites like Sonic 2 or Chrono.

Speed 3 and speed 4 lotus are remarkably similar except the cloth. I think that’s a testament to the longevity of that design. I have Speed3 and 4 and Hyperlink in my stable. Speed 3 has much more increase in lift when you pull the bar. Much more fun for jumps and twintip. The active wingtips allow it to turn fast when depowered and turn fast in spite of a higher aspect ratio. But the kite sits deeper in the window when depowered my guess because of tip drag. It’s nice for stability at the zenith. But Hyperlink goes better upwind in spite of lower aspect because you can push the depowered kite further into the wind.

Some prefer DLX cloth to lotus and I think it depends on your sand and how dry your air is. Some sand sticks to lotus with static electricity. On SPI they prefer DLX. I prefer Lotus. As stated lotus is more slippery and water beads off. I think the weight is similar if you keep the kite dry.

12 is a nice size.

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Re: First foilkite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:42 pm

With 60 kg i did lot like the speed 3 (15m) in low wind below 11-12 knots even with large TT or hydrofoil. My low end was about 9-10 knot with a karge TT .

I even prefered the speed2 in lightvwinds. DLX is not perfect in wear in time, specially with UV . If it is 40 sessions in snowkite, it is already a lot and high risk of cloth porosity which kills almost definitelly the kite. I spent hours and hours to correct its wear with limited sucess when it is porous (Recoating, qeam qealinf, vriddle corrections...) . To me 2011 is too old even 350 euros. For same price Pansh Aurora v2 or a15 would be more reliable if you are not seeking for high turbulent winds.

Then speed 4 is a bit better and its lotus cloth far more efficient IMO.

But contrary to kitexpert , if you have the budget or a good second hand, I would by far prefer a Hyperlink, Kitech FRS (so easy ! ) and Pulsion (so impressive low end and fun, by far better than speed3 and 4 under 10 knots).

If it is for TT riding do not hesitate to buy a large lqrge surface. My prefered one was 22m even with 60 kg up to 11 knots to get upwind easily and open doors to play more and long-small jumps (since not only fighting to keep upwind).

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Re: First foilkite

Postby kitexpert » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:23 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:42 pm
If it is 40 sessions in snowkite, it is already a lot
:?: If it is 400 sessions it is lot. I have 40 sessions in few months, easily within normal snow kite season.
jakemoore wrote: But Hyperlink goes better upwind in spite of lower aspect because you can push the depowered kite further into the wind.
That is very hard to believe because Hyperlink is a kite with lower specs than Speed3. Fastest method to go upwind is not depowered, but with full power or at maximal power you can still hold edge. If you reach your limit when kite is depowered you have much too big kite.

Speed4 with lotus fabric is better but kite itself is essentially same.


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