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Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

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slowboat
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Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby slowboat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:50 pm

Discussed before, there are combinations of foils and boards where the foil never sinks. How much of a real world problem is this? Enough to make you want to sell it? Or just painful having to body drag again? I can imagine some advantages besides ease of strapless waterstart such as foil not floating into your lines if you drop your kite.

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:59 pm

Haven't noticed a big problem with foils that sink very slowly.

Bad points seem to be that you have to body drag upwind more as the foil doesn't drift downwind as quickly (until it sinks).

They still get in your lines so try not to let go of the board. The ones I have tried are all lighter which is nice.

Otherwise I think it just becomes 'what you get used to'.

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Overall it is easy to cope with this by body dragging. But once in big waves with a low aspect kite of small size (4m2) it was really hard for me to body drag up wind faster than the foil which led to hard energy (and stress) to recover it. I had to swimm upwind energically with kite up and shaking in 25 knots during a pair of minutes.

But 90 % of the time it is ok and easy, specially in light winds (which is often the case with large wings that floats).
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slowboat
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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby slowboat » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:10 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:59 pm
Haven't noticed a big problem with foils that sink very slowly.

Bad points seem to be that you have to body drag upwind more as the foil doesn't drift downwind as quickly (until it sinks).

They still get in your lines so try not to let go of the board. The ones I have tried are all lighter which is nice.

Otherwise I think it just becomes 'what you get used to'.
Sinking slowly is fine. I am asking about ones that never sink

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby grigorib » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:16 pm

Have the 633. It doesn’t sink. Bodydragging is not a big deal, strapless waterstarts are ok with either that or fast-sinking aluminum foils.
Rides heavenly. If I sell it I’ll just get myself a new one, just as I did last time :)
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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Foil » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:04 pm

I witnessed the bad side of the floating 633.
it's never happened to me or anyone else I know of, but this was bad.
for the record the guy involved was not very experienced and fell in a whole lot, and was pretty bad at getting his kite out of the water once dropped, and he did this a lot.
Flag Beach 3 weeks ago
wind 12knts steady, cross on from the left.
tide flow -right to left, 1-3 knts (guess only)

I was concerned about this guy as he continued out to sea even though he was tripping over many of the small waves and spending a lot of time trying to relaunch his kite, I think it was a 11mtr. but he kept on going one way each time he got going again, out to sea!
at one point I sailed very close to him and shouted to him if he was ok, no reply, and I only speak one language, so difficult to communicate,
he did then fall in and turn round, got up and started off back to shore, phew!

I noticed all his gear was brand new,
a new 120 full carbon groove skate with red stripes, Moses 633 foil set on a 91cm mast, he was full booted and suited with a bright orange helmet.

I returned to shore to my little beach camp and got out my Binoculars, before I looked through them Pauline asked what is that thing flashing red in the sun out at sea, through the bino's I could see it was the groove skate yet again on its side, the fluorescent red stripes were catching the sun
and flashing bright,
it was traveling with the tide flow and helped a little by the wind blowing on its deck side with the mast and wing pointing downwind towards me, the owner was now quite a distance from the board with his kite down, I waited for some minutes watching him and hoping the kite would lift off, it did not and then I realised why, the wind had dropped, and I could see the guy was now winding in his kite, yikes!
I looked back to his board and it was now about 100 yards from the reef rocks which stretch way out to sea at low tide, and it was low tide.
my conversation with the rescue service was interesting, its one I have heard before,
they knew the guy, and had also been watching things unfold,
they informed me they were told by this guy that he would always self rescue himself, so they were to leave him alone to do just that,
they of course said if he looked in any danger then of course they would intervene.
His board by now was on the reef and flashing back as it gently rocked against the reef, the unlucky foiler floated along with his kite and landed himself on the reef, and at this point had a 100 yards stumble back across the reef to the sandy shore line.
madness,
why wont some guys just pay the small fee for rescue cover, its costs me 30 euro for 3 weeks cover, locals get this for much much less.

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Foil » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:31 pm

this event above is the reason why I sometimes return to shore in very light winds to clip on my reel leash, as I have been caught out at flag before when the wind suddenly drops as the direction swings back to N/e and the resulting wind shadow created by the offshore lobos island results in all kites falling out of the sky, and it can happen so quickly,
last year Andrew Court the dad of the famous kitesurfer Tom Court was also caught out by this event, I had managed to sail in with a few seconds to spare before the wind disappeared, all kites came down.
Andrew dropped his foil kite near the right side reef, he did have a mini leash with him but only attached to his harness,
he realised what was about to happen as his board (mast down) started to drift away on the tide, he lunged his arm out to recover the board but missed, and the kite was pulling him the other way. seconds later his board was bouncing on the reef with some 2-3 ft waves working it into the rock, he had not paid for rescue but the boat quickly realised he was in danger so launched and pulled him clear very quickly, with his very wet and heavy foil kite.
His moses foil set and mast was so damaged he had to replace the lot as it never worked properly again after repair work.
and he had to pay the rescue fee of 100 euro, as he had not paid for the cover, he has worked out he has paid the 100 euro fee 3 times in 3 years, and maybe its time to pay the smaller fee in future.

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby OzBungy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:06 am

My foil almost never sinks. It can sink, but if it's floating then it will float forever.

If your foil sinks then it usually comes back to you after a fall. This is great when learning to tack or any other difficult move.

It is a pain if you have crashed your kite and lost touch with your board. The board can zoom off downwind at speed. Mine got away from me while relaunching and ended up sitting on the only rocks for miles around. It bounces up and down on the rock as each wave passes. Fortunately my gear is very light so the damage was only minor scratches and chips. It is easy to repair.

If the foil floats then the board tends to stay where it is. I don't believe that it sails off upwind. At worst it might sail away crosswind. You can easily drag back to it. It is no worse than dragging to a TT or surfboard. I quite like that the board sits up and is very visible.

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby tmcfarla » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:29 am

What is the perceived benefit of a foil that doesn’t sink? Mine sinks slowly, and every once in a while takes a long time to sink, that pisses me off because I have to body drag to it. There are definitely costs of a non-sinking foil, but I honestly can’t think of a single benefit. If you are talking about slowly sinking vs. quickly sinking, then foils that sink slowly are definitely easier to deal with.

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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Slappysan » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:17 am

I just recently upgraded to a setup that usually floats on it's side. I have only one session on it but even when it was floating on it's side it was still moving down-wave back towards me so I didn't have to body drag.

Now I'm not sure if it's my 60 cm mast or what but my combo (NP Glide Surf L + DC 4-6) floats on a 45 degree angle, while I've seen pics of other side floating foils that are almost dead sideways.

You can see it floating here:


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