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Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

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Herman
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:45 am

Horst Sergio wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:11 pm
Herman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:23 am
With a board on its side foil floating:
The position of the centre of lateral resistance from the water relative to the centre of pressure from the windage will also make a difference to how the board drifts.
I have no doupt that it is possible to have a certain board foil combination, that can travel upwind. But I have serious doupts that there are real world combinations out there that travel at a relevant angle at a relevant speed upwind, stable for a relevant time.

To me this topic reminds strongly to: "Riding my twintip without leash, How much of a problem is it?" so maybe here better topic header would be:

"Never learned bodydragging, now with the foilboard is it really necessary?"

I think:
Yes it is necessary to learn swimming and bodydragging with a kite well to not bring yourself in danger and that floating foilwings are no relevant problem, even if it is the opposite.

I have 2 floating wings used with 5 different boards and I have never seen anything like what here is discussed. If anybody wants to name it seriously as a problem I would favour and recommend to make a good video with a reference buoy or similar in no current conditions to show the speed and direction a board can travel upwind, so it can be a traceable warning for the rest.

Otherwise go learn bodydragging or better boardoffs than you will be forced to do it often enough until you are a body drag Pro :D , ask TOBY. :wink:
My comment on the relationship of centre of lateral resistance to centre of windage does not imply that I think the board/hydrofoil would go upwind, but it will effect how it orientats itself in the wind. I recently trialed my floating set up in about 12 knts of wind, flat chest deep water. Having the board stationary across the wind at release, the board drifted downwind very slowly at first, but as the centre of windage was forward of the centre of lateral resistance the board gradually bore away. Once the board angle had swung to a broad reach the downwind drift rate accelerated to a pretty reasonable speed. I was quite happy with the drift rate down wind so I did not bother to take any timing. Just thought I might need a bit of patience in some situations where the board needed to bear away and maybe a bit more patience if I moved onto a pocket board, which may take longer to bear away.

I was also left with the impression that if I had released the board on a broad reach in the first place it would have gone down wind at a decent rate almost immediately. I also thought that any sea state would knock it around anyway. Either way I was happy it was not too much of a problem for my set up! Personally I am happy swimming and/or body dragging, gives you time to contemplate life!

The operative word was "how" it drifts not where it drifts!!

Nice tuning idea from TomTom!

Regards Herman.

Herman
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:15 am

If any body wants to do a quick drift trial at the end of their session it would be interesting to know how the board drifts if it is released with nose well into wind compared to board across or broad to wind. Unfortunately I omitted that scenario in my sea trials. My guess it might add to the patience you may need. It would also be nice to know if other setups behave in the same way as mine with the release orientations I did try.

Regards Herman.

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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby drsurf » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:28 pm

I have a Moses 633 Axis MV (minimal volume) board. If I fall and the nose of the board is pointing downwind and the foil is floating then it will slowly go downwind. However if the nose is pointing upwind with the board deck facing the wind then the board will go upwind and depending of the conditions and kite, be very hard to body drag to. Especially with a Peak4.

The Axis MV board is very thin and acts like a keel and even the the chop hitting the deck of the board on its side exerts a pumping effect pushing the whole lot upwind if it's oriented that way. Sometimes the foil will stay submerged and it will all drift downwind, but when you're having a bad day it will head upwind towards the nearest rocky reef or open ocean faster than you can get to it :(
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