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Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

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Tomlutz
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Re: Foils that don’t sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Tomlutz » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:23 am

dkazhdan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:50 am
i am often in a situation when the wind is so light that body dragging is not working out that well as all I manage to do is keep the kite at 12 and wait for the board to come back to me.

wondering how people get to their non-sinking foils in those conditions? if you cant bodydrag?
Just swim to your board, with your kite at 12 and hooked to your harness. Difficult swimming technique, but possible. If you are a good swimmer it should just take a couple of minutes. Better than waiting.
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dkazhdan (Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:05 pm)
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PurdyKiter
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby PurdyKiter » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:05 pm

I ride the Moses 633 on a light carbon Kanaha Shapes 42. This setup always float away upwind on it's side. The ease of strapless waterstarts far outweighs the body-drag efforts which are similar to TT and directional.
The exception is if you dump the kite and spend more time putzing with a crashed kite, or cannot relaunch. It the pre-float past I could waste 15 minutes and then just blast down-wind with confidence I'd find my board. With this floating setup I'm screwed and need a boat because it's long gone upwind out of reach of body-dragging.
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dkazhdan (Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:22 pm)
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Herman
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Herman » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:23 am

With a board on its side foil floating:

The position of the centre of lateral resistance from the water relative to the centre of pressure from the windage will also make a difference to how the board drifts.
For example with more nose the board will bear away and is likely go down wind better!

Regards Herman.
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dkazhdan (Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:24 pm)
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slowboat
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby slowboat » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:29 am

I think a lot just depends on your riding conditions. On proper wave (mostly onshore) days using a minimally powered pure wave foiling kite, when I crash downwind of my foil, I am so grateful to be able to wait for my foil to float down to me.

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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby keskopesko » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:59 am

I would lite that my 633 would swim with my 130cmx4cm board on its side.
It is problem that I have older 633 version (bit more heavy) or too much volume of the board?

Strapless start is very difficult, I have only a moment or two to do it.

tnx,
Ales

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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby tomtom » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:00 pm

Free opportunity for manufacturer to use my idea /which i will use on my foils/

All big foil wing float - because they have sandwich construction /light core - heavy laminate/, And this is main reason why whole setup float. Dont take me literally - but in 99% it is like this.
Mast is either non float or close to neutral - stabilizer detto.
It is very easy to integrate small cavity in core of front wing which can be either empty or completely floated or partialy floated. Cavity opening will be closed by small flush screw /like finn screw/
This way one can TUNE float of whole setup - regards to conditions or water salinity or whatever. After use just drain water out and it add no weight.

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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:39 pm

Nothing better than easy hands free waterstart. A foil on its side is more often help than hindrance for me. So much easier to spot and its not really going anywhere that quick. Flat it's a bitch to keep track of in a certain light and if the chop is just "wrong" they can swim downwind way too fast.

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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby joekitetime » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:03 pm

My favorite foil to ride for "easy" riding is the Moses 873 (technically a sup foil, but I love it!).

It is so buoyant that I can barely push the thing underwater.

It is so floaty that I can barely sit on my board with it underneath if having to relaunch the kite.

I've never had to swim for it, but it is the easiest of all my foils to keep track of, to ride, and to get started. So, rather than a problem it seems to be a help.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby Horst Sergio » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:11 pm

Herman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:23 am
With a board on its side foil floating:
The position of the centre of lateral resistance from the water relative to the centre of pressure from the windage will also make a difference to how the board drifts.
I have no doupt that it is possible to have a certain board foil combination, that can travel upwind. But I have serious doupts that there are real world combinations out there that travel at a relevant angle at a relevant speed upwind, stable for a relevant time.

To me this topic reminds strongly to: "Riding my twintip without leash, How much of a problem is it?" so maybe here better topic header would be:

"Never learned bodydragging, now with the foilboard is it really necessary?"

I think:
Yes it is necessary to learn swimming and bodydragging with a kite well to not bring yourself in danger and that floating foilwings are no relevant problem, even if it is the opposite.

I have 2 floating wings used with 5 different boards and I have never seen anything like what here is discussed. If anybody wants to name it seriously as a problem I would favour and recommend to make a good video with a reference buoy or similar in no current conditions to show the speed and direction a board can travel upwind, so it can be a traceable warning for the rest.

Otherwise go learn bodydragging or better boardoffs than you will be forced to do it often enough until you are a body drag Pro :D , ask TOBY. :wink:
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dkazhdan (Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:39 am)
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tomtom
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Re: Foils that don't sink. How much of a problem is it

Postby tomtom » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:21 pm

Peaks are bitch to upwind BD - it possible but its slow. Thats why i like nonfloat. Or helping other people /wifes kids/ with they Peaks in water. Here i want nofloat.
Heavy waves on rocky beach - where your board goes self foiling on waves straight to rock? Here i definitely want Floating setup which doesnt self foil. So depends on situation.
Do i want setup which is tunable from NONFLOAT to FLOAT - hell YES!


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