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Moses 683 Freeride at speed

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Wazza KiteFoil
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Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Wazza KiteFoil » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:27 am

I am a new owner of a Moses 683 and love it.
I am finding control at speeds about 30kph (kilometers) and above challenging.
Is it me and I will adjust or is there some tuning such as a shim on the stabiliser required?

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby dan_kan » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:30 pm

It was similar on my 683S with Moses Silente at wind 5-10kt:
gps.PNG

drsurf
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby drsurf » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:14 pm

Wazza KiteFoil wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:27 am
I am a new owner of a Moses 683 and love it.
I am finding control at speeds about 30kph (kilometers) and above challenging.
Is it me and I will adjust or is there some tuning such as a shim on the stabiliser required?
Hi Wazza.
I have the Moses 633 foil and love it as well. However with my light 65kg weight I found it was generating more lift than I was comfortable with at speed. Especially toeside. So I made up a plastic tapered shim for the stabiliser and now I have the control I want at speed.
I figured that the standard setup would be for average weight guys who are heavier than me so the shim adjustment makes it work for my weight. Also considering the 683 is designed primarily as a windsurf foil a shim adjustment may be required for the lighter kitefoiling board to be comfortable.

Definitely try a shim and let us know how it goes as it costs nothing to shim your stab and gives you a better understanding of how to increase the versatility of your foil.

Have fun, Dave

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby grigorib » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:12 pm

633 came up as surf/sup wing rather than windsurf.
It’s not a wing to squeeze high speeds from, it’s a lightwind and specifically slow wing. I switch to 590 when I want to fly faster and possibly 683s would be more suitable wing for 65kg person.

Dammit, a 590 wing is awesome for 65kg and has plenty of lowend for the weight :)

There were reports of successful shimming of 633 and those shims are made and sold by others
https://www.skshapes.com/shop/accessoires/

But. 633 is a thick wing, don’t push it to fly fast - it wasn’t designed for that. Get a 683s, a 590 or something between 590 and 633, which is yet to come from Moses

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Foil » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:20 pm

this thread is a little confusing.
are we talking about the 683 or the 683s,
I had hold of the 683 last week and its a different profile from the 683s, yes one is for the windsurfer-the 683,
and the 683s model is for the kite surf, but both are different profile and hole spacing, so maybe the windsurfing one -the 683(no s) will be pumping out more lift, makes sense.
(I weighed the 683 and it came out at 665gm, but someone on here weighed his 683s which came out at over 900grm,
if that's right then its way different)

I do know the 683s is not in any way a slow wing, and is more controllable at speed than the 633, mast position is the same as the 633.

I was sailing with a Italian guy at Flag beach a few weeks ago, he was well above the average skill level(8 years) as he was throwing in smooth race roll tacks, and rarely getting them wrong, and his speed across the water was impressive, and to my complete surprise he was using a 683s.
after getting to know him I found out he races at club level and takes it seriously, carbon race bar, race lines, 111 moses mast, and strangely the 683s with the standard 483 stabilizer and standard Onda fuse.
He claims the 683s allows him to roll tack much more consistently than the 633 or other wings he has tried, in other words he falls in much less when tacking than the other guys he races with, which saves him time on the course, and the speed although not as fast as a pure race wing is so controllable, he says it makes him a much smoother rider in better control, so its what he uses,
After a week trying to keep up with him at every opportunity, I improved my speed on my 633 so much, copying his stance, body position, and the all important yeeeharr shouting of course.
My 683s should be with me tomorrow.
and its windy in a few days.
bloody brill!

Wazza KiteFoil
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Wazza KiteFoil » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:09 am

I can relate to all above comments including the speeds at 5 to 10kn breeze as similar for me .
My foil is 683S and weighs 645gm.
Its sold as 72 Freeride.
I will shim the back wing and advise.

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby ap888 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:11 am

How does the 683s compare to the 633 when it comes to carving does it carve as tight or longer wide carves? how agile is it compared to the 633? How much faster is the 683s ? what is the low end difference in kite size for the 683s :?:
And anything else that is noticed comparing the 683s to 633
All feedback very much appreciated :)

Wazza KiteFoil
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Wazza KiteFoil » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:22 am

Yesterday I put in a thin fiber washer in the back screw of the back wing of my 683 Moses.
This washer is about half the thickness of a ss washer.
Result - I was crusing at 26 to 28 kph at the same comfort level as prior to no washer at 22 to 24kph.
I was amazed when looking at my GPS watch seeing frequently 26 to 28kph.
However over 30kph still could improve so now fitted a ss washer.
Tomorrow will tell.

Foil
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Foil » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:45 am

just to help anyone who has not yet started to do the de-grease routine before a session,
all i would say is just try it,
it's a major tip i picked up from the pros who sail at flag beach, mainly the flysurfer team race tech guy who i have now met for the last 2 seasons over there, he looks after the carbon race foils for the guys,and has passed on some tips to hep prevent unwelcome vibration,or that unstable underfoot feeling you can experience when pushing for maximum speed or performance from your mast and wingset.
I ignored this advice during my first year foiling as i thought that's only for the speed/race guys, but as i got better and was trying to push my foils to go faster i noticed the foils at times were feeling just not right when either pushing hard upwind-letting go- cavitating, or developing a very nervous feeling at speed which if i pushed for more speed resulted in a crash, a very sudden feeling of letting go of all grip then boom!
so i remembered what i was shown at flag beach,
i ran plain tap water slowly across the top surface of all my carbon bits, mast and wings, and watched as the dribbles of water ran down over the surfaces, you should not see any water running down the surface that deviates from the straight down position,
any water that runs off the vertical drop line has hit the invisible destroyer of foil control--
grease/oil/sun cream/skin oil from simply placing your hands on the foil surfaces when carrying /bolt grease residue/outboard motor oil residue/shipping oil residue, all invisible most of the time, but all can cause cavitation as water avoids sticking to any surface that has been contaminated, resulting in loss of grip when any sort of pressure is applied when sailing, this can happen at alarmingly low speeds of under 20kmph but certainly over that threshold.
The simple solution is to wipe all your surfaces with a soapy microfibre cloth before you hit the water,
that's it!
and it works, another experienced foiler at flag tried the same routine and could not get over the difference it made, his words were-- "so smooth"
"none of that shimmying sort of feeling, no letting go like you have hit some seaweed,why did I not know this before?"
its simple yet so effective.

Wazza KiteFoil
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Wazza KiteFoil » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:25 am

Foil wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:45 am
just to help anyone who has not yet started to do the de-grease routine before a session,
all i would say is just try it,
it's a major tip i picked up from the pros who sail at flag beach, mainly the flysurfer team race tech guy who i have now met for the last 2 seasons over there, he looks after the carbon race foils for the guys,and has passed on some tips to hep prevent unwelcome vibration,or that unstable underfoot feeling you can experience when pushing for maximum speed or performance from your mast and wingset.
I ignored this advice during my first year foiling as i thought that's only for the speed/race guys, but as i got better and was trying to push my foils to go faster i noticed the foils at times were feeling just not right when either pushing hard upwind-letting go- cavitating, or developing a very nervous feeling at speed which if i pushed for more speed resulted in a crash, a very sudden feeling of letting go of all grip then boom!
so i remembered what i was shown at flag beach,
i ran plain tap water slowly across the top surface of all my carbon bits, mast and wings, and watched as the dribbles of water ran down over the surfaces, you should not see any water running down the surface that deviates from the straight down position,
any water that runs off the vertical drop line has hit the invisible destroyer of foil control--
grease/oil/sun cream/skin oil from simply placing your hands on the foil surfaces when carrying /bolt grease residue/outboard motor oil residue/shipping oil residue, all invisible most of the time, but all can cause cavitation as water avoids sticking to any surface that has been contaminated, resulting in loss of grip when any sort of pressure is applied when sailing, this can happen at alarmingly low speeds of under 20kmph but certainly over that threshold.
The simple solution is to wipe all your surfaces with a soapy microfibre cloth before you hit the water,
that's it!
and it works, another experienced foiler at flag tried the same routine and could not get over the difference it made, his words were-- "so smooth"
"none of that shimmying sort of feeling, no letting go like you have hit some seaweed,why did I not know this before?"
its simple yet so effective.
Makes sense will do this tomorrow as well.
I have noticed grease around the screws from my effort to stop corrosion.


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