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Moses 683 Freeride at speed

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BraCuru
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby BraCuru » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:28 am

Foil wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:19 am
I am expecting a little more speed from the 683s
50 is doable.

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Foil » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:50 am

20 mph steady winds tomorrow, flatish sea conditions,
charging up gps speed watch now.
50? really?
blimey!

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby jur0 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:42 pm

Foil wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:45 am
just to help anyone who has not yet started to do the de-grease routine before a session,
all i would say is just try it,
it's a major tip i picked up from the pros who sail at flag beach, mainly the flysurfer team race tech guy who i have now met for the last 2 seasons over there, he looks after the carbon race foils for the guys,and has passed on some tips to hep prevent unwelcome vibration,or that unstable underfoot feeling you can experience when pushing for maximum speed or performance from your mast and wingset.
I ignored this advice during my first year foiling as i thought that's only for the speed/race guys, but as i got better and was trying to push my foils to go faster i noticed the foils at times were feeling just not right when either pushing hard upwind-letting go- cavitating, or developing a very nervous feeling at speed which if i pushed for more speed resulted in a crash, a very sudden feeling of letting go of all grip then boom!
so i remembered what i was shown at flag beach,
i ran plain tap water slowly across the top surface of all my carbon bits, mast and wings, and watched as the dribbles of water ran down over the surfaces, you should not see any water running down the surface that deviates from the straight down position,
any water that runs off the vertical drop line has hit the invisible destroyer of foil control--
grease/oil/sun cream/skin oil from simply placing your hands on the foil surfaces when carrying /bolt grease residue/outboard motor oil residue/shipping oil residue, all invisible most of the time, but all can cause cavitation as water avoids sticking to any surface that has been contaminated, resulting in loss of grip when any sort of pressure is applied when sailing, this can happen at alarmingly low speeds of under 20kmph but certainly over that threshold.
The simple solution is to wipe all your surfaces with a soapy microfibre cloth before you hit the water,
that's it!
and it works, another experienced foiler at flag tried the same routine and could not get over the difference it made, his words were-- "so smooth"
"none of that shimmying sort of feeling, no letting go like you have hit some seaweed,why did I not know this before?"
its simple yet so effective.
So I tried to de-grease my 633 and it made a noticeable difference! The foil became more stable, and I'd say I keep the board a bit higher above the water than before.

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NYKiter
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby NYKiter » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:20 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 am
Stabilizer pushing down is compensated by front foot pressure, altogether creating a stable load on the wing. Decreasing stabilizer negative lift allows to not have a crazy increasing foot pressure at speed and reduces overall drag
shimming the rear is not DEcreasing negative lift.....its INcreasing negative lift, the AoA is now higher....

INcrease in lift comes at the cost of an INcrease in drag....so this argument doesnt seem to make sense....

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby grigorib » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:49 pm

NYKiter wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:20 pm
grigorib wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:55 am
Stabilizer pushing down is compensated by front foot pressure, altogether creating a stable load on the wing. Decreasing stabilizer negative lift allows to not have a crazy increasing foot pressure at speed and reduces overall drag
shimming the rear is not DEcreasing negative lift.....its INcreasing negative lift, the AoA is now higher....

INcrease in lift comes at the cost of an INcrease in drag....so this argument doesnt seem to make sense....
Stabilizer is “flying down” creating negative lift.
By shimming it you point it a bit more up decreasing negative lift. Look at the pic.
Attachments
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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby BWD » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:46 pm

Challenge question:

What is the effect of a shim that does not change the angle of the stabilizer, a flat shim?

Winner will receive half a bag of soggy chips!

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby grigorib » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:53 pm

BWD wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:46 pm
Challenge question:

What is the effect of a shim that does not change the angle of the stabilizer, a flat shim?

Winner will receive half a bag of soggy chips!
shim Dictionary result for shim
/SHim/
noun
1.
a washer or thin strip of material used to align parts, make them fit, or reduce wear.
"an aluminum shim reduces the diameter so that a standard stem will fit"
verb
1.
wedge (something) or fill up (a space) with a shim.
"display monitors were shimmed up on cardboard"

I can only guess that if surfaces of stabilizer and fuselage don't match you need a shim, just a plastic washer there.
Liquid force had it between their mast and Fish board, since Fish doesn't have a flat surface on the bottom.

Other use is to troll others. Just like guys were talking about line length at KOTA.

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby NYKiter » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:19 pm

Ok got it....lol confusing. Nice shim btw

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby grigorib » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 pm

NYKiter wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:19 pm
Ok got it....lol confusing. Nice shim btw
Not only confusing but sound ineffective. Imagine if airplane stabilizer was pointed down as well as prop engine in front "to create force onto main wing and stabilize the craft". Why not go further and attach a parachute behind to "keep it horizontal"

Shims are from SKShapes https://www.skshapes.com/shop/accessoires/

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Re: Moses 683 Freeride at speed

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:46 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 pm
Snip...

Not only confusing but sound ineffective. Imagine if airplane stabilizer was pointed down as well as prop engine in front "to create force onto main wing and stabilize the craft". Why not go further and attach a parachute behind to "keep it horizontal"

Snip...

I dont understand your point here?

But regarding above, it IS how small airplanes are usually designed and trimmed.

The stabilizer pulls a bit down, CG a bit forward, so it has auto stabilizing effect when gliding if the motor is either shut off, run dry of gazoline, or just running at idle throttle.

And the motor (propeller) is pointed somewhat down, so the plane will still fly straight, when you increase the motor throttle.

This is very normal and used often for a pleasant easy flight with all throttle levels :thumb:

8) Peter
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