Kiteforum.com

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:28 am**

Wake foiling is Way bigger than any of you realize.

From insider info, wake foils sell more than kite foils.

Think about it.

1st.....We hardly ever see it because we're wind based sport and not on the water much when boats are.
2nd.....We're a fringe sports. Wake is a mainstream sport with many more on the water.
3rd......If you own a boat, the price of a foil is minimal.. If you own a kite, the price of a foil is probably expensive.
4th..... Access to water is much higher for wake foiling due to NOT having to have wind. AND....if there is chop, foiling will make it more fun for wake dudes.
5th......You can actually do it with friends (many people in one boat) much easier making it a more social sport.
6th......You don't actually need an $80,000 ski/wake boat. Most any boat or jet ski with decent power works and a minimal wake is needed to pump if that's your desire.

I'll go out on a limb and say Wake will be #1, Kite #2, Surf and pumping #3.....then the rest.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:26 pm**

toyletbowl wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:28 am
Wake foiling is Way bigger than any of you realize.

From insider info, wake foils sell more than kite foils.

Think about it.

No way, it is location dependant.
You live in US, where wake and waterski is quite big I assume.
Here in Denmark, see comments below:

1st.....We hardly ever see it because we're wind based sport and not on the water much when boats are.
I live right at the water, so see totally flat days too, and hardly or noone is out...
Also, for foling we ride in 5-6 knots sometimes, so here we would see anyone wakeboarding.

2nd.....We're a fringe sports. Wake is a mainstream sport with many more on the water.
Nope, sailing is a mainstream huge sport, wind and kitesurf is a quite big sport, and wake hardly exists here in Denmark...
A few on lakes and cableparks, but thats it.

3rd......If you own a boat, the price of a foil is minimal.. If you own a kite, the price of a foil is probably expensive.
Hardly never see any out, as said, it is NOT mainstream and hardly never seen, here in our typical "sailing" nation, so not many boats.

4th..... Access to water is much higher for wake foiling due to NOT having to have wind. AND....if there is chop, foiling will make it more fun for wake dudes.
Almost true, as we hardly never have flat water not even in low winds, but so much more true with a kite, as we ALWAYS have wind for kitefoiling.

5th......You can actually do it with friends (many people in one boat) much easier making it a more social sport.
Hmmm, then you should play dart or volleyball instead, if only for the social part Just kidding

6th......You don't actually need an $80,000 ski/wake boat. Most any boat or jet ski with decent power works and a minimal wake is needed to pump if that's your desire.
Maybe true, but does not make much sense here in Denmark...

I'll go out on a limb and say Wake will be #1, Kite #2, Surf and pumping #3.....then the rest.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:43 pm**

Bob's not wrong. Wake industry dwarfs the kite industry.

Of course in regions where there are waves, ocean or not many lakes, you won't see wake foiling.

Wake may be big in North America, but cottaging is HUGE. We have so many more cottagers than kiters, like by large orders of magnitude. All of them want to keep up with the neighbours so cottage trends take off like wildfire. This one brings an activity that was mostly for the rich, down to the level of the average cottage/boat/seadoo owner. No need for the type of boat that has kept wake boarding out of reach but make no mistake, having fun behind a boat has always had the feel of affluence. Every cottage has a wakeboard up in the rafters. They may not use em much anymore, but they all have one. LOADS of average cottagers will pick up a foil in efforts to be cutting edge again. The industry will target them with cheap plastic boards and wings. None will even think of carbon! We literally have tens of thousands of lakes, and I can absolutely believe there will be wake foils all over the place within the next few years. Less wake, less fuel, less boat..... it's even gonna have the optics of a more "eco friendly" pastime.

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:08 pm**

Cottaging is HUGE

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:06 pm**

jumptheshark wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:43 pm
Bob's not wrong. Wake industry dwarfs the kite industry.

I agree that wake dwarfs kite. In Florida, there are cable parks and fresh water lakes everywhere, all filled with wake enthusiasts. I have a house on a lake that has dozens of wakeboarders every day of the week. Some are pros with video crews following behind in a second boat, many are intermediates, many are beginners, many are wake surfing. A mile away, we have a cable park that is always busy. Wake is huge in Florida.

BUT I honestly never see a wake foil on the water. Maybe they are congregating elsewhere on another lake, but wake FOILING just isn't happening on my lake, while every other form of wake sport is.

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:18 pm**

Interesting. The air chair (face-forward seat-on foil setup) has been around for decades. They even sell them in Dick’s sport store.
It would be great if wakefoiling goes big. Even foils probably won't be ever $50-$100 as Walmart bikes. but if you can get aluminum foil for $200-$300 it would be nice for entry level kitefoilers. It would also bring enough cash to manufacturers to pretty aluminum foils up and catch up to nice ones like Axis (even though Axis is just a tad below price of carbon Moses)

Wakefoiling is fun for a calm day and funny that people who invest tens of thousands into a boat cheap out on aluminum setup.

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:44 pm**

Peter_Frank wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:26 pm

toyletbowl wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:28 am
Wake foiling is Way bigger than any of you realize.

From insider info, wake foils sell more than kite foils.

Think about it.

No way, it is location dependant.
You live in US, where wake and waterski is quite big I assume.
Here in Denmark, see comments below:

1st.....We hardly ever see it because we're wind based sport and not on the water much when boats are.
I live right at the water, so see totally flat days too, and hardly or noone is out...
Also, for foling we ride in 5-6 knots sometimes, so here we would see anyone wakeboarding.

2nd.....We're a fringe sports. Wake is a mainstream sport with many more on the water.
Nope, sailing is a mainstream huge sport, wind and kitesurf is a quite big sport, and wake hardly exists here in Denmark...
A few on lakes and cableparks, but thats it.

3rd......If you own a boat, the price of a foil is minimal.. If you own a kite, the price of a foil is probably expensive.
Hardly never see any out, as said, it is NOT mainstream and hardly never seen, here in our typical "sailing" nation, so not many boats.

4th..... Access to water is much higher for wake foiling due to NOT having to have wind. AND....if there is chop, foiling will make it more fun for wake dudes.
Almost true, as we hardly never have flat water not even in low winds, but so much more true with a kite, as we ALWAYS have wind for kitefoiling.

5th......You can actually do it with friends (many people in one boat) much easier making it a more social sport.
Hmmm, then you should play dart or volleyball instead, if only for the social part Just kidding

6th......You don't actually need an $80,000 ski/wake boat. Most any boat or jet ski with decent power works and a minimal wake is needed to pump if that's your desire.
Maybe true, but does not make much sense here in Denmark...

I'll go out on a limb and say Wake will be #1, Kite #2, Surf and pumping #3.....then the rest.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com

Sorry Peter....not trying to offend anyone on here about the true nature of our sport.
You are probably correct for Denmark and many other countries in the world, but I stand by my assessment based in insider information worldwide.

Ask yourself this.

Why do Liquid Force wake boards cost a LOT less than Liquid Force kiteboards when they use the same process, etc?

VOLUME. Volume dictates pricing and Wake and Ski already has a massive lead over what kiting will ever have.

Pick any one lake in the USA and there's probably hundreds or thousands of docks on the lake and most of those docks have boats.

Boating IS mainstream. Kiting is fringe worldwide. BTW.....I'm quite impressed on how much kiting is endorsed in other countries around the world. Denmark sounds awesome.

One last thing....I'm an industry insider and know for a fact that wake foil sales are already way higher than most of us realize.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:58 pm**

Docks on the lakes are full of boats. However it seems that majority of them rather engage in going to a cove, throwing an anchor and partying for a day or fishing off it. A sailboat race occasionally goes on too.
But when we wakefoiled Lake Michigan last year there were very curious boaters - I hope it makes difference for us all.

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:09 pm**

Give it a few years. I still occasionally run into people who have never seen kiting!

Posted: **Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm**

I still dont get this Bob, USA is still only one out of 195 countries, with a very different way than many others, so location and culture is everything IMO, and one can not broadscast a single country worldwide as being "how it is"

PF

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