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Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:56 am
by ronnie
Signature production version.


Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:13 pm
by Toby

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:10 am
by foilholio
next up a loop and harness...

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:09 am
by OzBungy
I am watching developments in these things with increasing interest. I have dabbled with surf SUP foiling and it's a bit limited because of the need for surf and water depth. Adding a kite wing thingie might make a surf SUP foil a lot more useful.

I see it letting me use the winds that we can't use at the moment. Gusty offshore. Fading winds etc. Access to small or crowded beaches would be better.

Also, getting a more surf like experience on SUP and foil when there's too much wind for SUP surfing.

I have to throw in a Ken Winner/North-now-Duotone rant. I fully accept that he produces fantastic gear. No question about that. Everybody else seems to find inflatable spars work just fine. Duotone have to make a kite wing with an aluminium boom. That's right up there with no-one-pump, 5-lines better than 4-lines and trailing edge battens and no plastic tubing on depower lines. We know they're going to persevere with the boom for a few years then come out with an inflatable one that's "way better than all the others".

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:33 am
by Matteo V
OzBungy wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:09 am
I have to throw in a Ken Winner/North-now-Duotone rant. I fully accept that he produces fantastic gear. No question about that. Everybody else seems to find inflatable spars work just fine. Duotone have to make a kite wing with an aluminium boom. That's right up there with no-one-pump, 5-lines better than 4-lines and trailing edge battens and no plastic tubing on depower lines. We know they're going to persevere with the boom for a few years then come out with an inflatable one that's "way better than all the others".
I'm gonna put my money on the physics working out that the lack of rigidity is detrimental to performance. And I mean performance as in racing. Hopefully I never have to watch these things race, but if that is a thing in 10 years, race wings will have a carbon rigid structure. Kind of like in kites where an inflatable is pretty good all around, but higher performance is attained by a foil with a fully supporting bridle system.

The kitewing has been around for a long time. It works fine. It is just so much easier to have an inflatable version for recreational use vs a rigid one for performance use.

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:22 am
by mr_daruman
I think we are seeing the "birth" of the bastard child X-over of watersports.
It does everything but badly. `low performance board, wing and foil compared to other sports.
For millineals X-tremers, were kitesurfing seems too dangerous and windsurfing too difficult. Perfect for resorts.
SUP sells a lot more and is more accessible than kite surfing and windsurfing combined. No wonder every company is jumping in.

What does these wings do anything better than other watersports? Jump? Upwind? Downwind? Surf? Speed? Freestyle? Cruise? Carve?

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:11 am
by OzBungy
Lighter, more compact and greater wind range than a sailboard sail. Easier "relaunch" and quicker setup than a kite. Less room on the beach and in the water than a kite. Easier self-rescue when coupled with a bigger board. Better depower, float and drift than a kite when on a wave.

The other thing is that it might remove the bad spot for existing sports. SUP surfing in wind is crap. Downwinders are a bit of a joke requiring 14' boards. Suddenly you can cruise around in winds that make SUP surfing crap. You can go upwind slowly on a SUP and faster on a SUP foil.

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:28 pm
by jkrug
mr_daruman wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 6:22 am
What does these wings do anything better than other watersports? Jump? Upwind? Downwind? Surf? Speed? Freestyle? Cruise? Carve?
it probably doesn't do better than any of those. but that's not the point. it just might find a niche not covered by any of those. for example, i hang out at a lake part of the year where i cannot do any of those, except cruise on a paddleboard. windsurfing isn't much fun there, kiting near impossible, no surf at all. this wing may change that. MAY. i don't know, but i'll keep an open mind.

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:15 pm
by Matteo V
OzBungy wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:11 am
Lighter, more compact and greater wind range than a sailboard sail. Easier "relaunch" and quicker setup than a kite. Less room on the beach and in the water than a kite. Easier self-rescue when coupled with a bigger board. Better depower, float and drift than a kite when on a wave.
Correct!

But how about the bad stuff. Remember when we switched from windsurfing to kiting. Suddenly we did not have that sail obscuring the half the view. Now we are going back to that? No way!

Then, remember when we realized the "pumping a windsurfing sail compared to sining the kite" thing? Maybe some kiters on sub 12m linesets might not notice, but having a wind window is the reason that kiting rules in windsports - and that is before you even consider jumping. This wingythingy (I'm coining that term, even though I owned and used a kitewing for some time) is a step down overall, regardless of it's possible advantages.

Does it have a niche in the outdoor users market? - For sure!
Will it attract kiters, get them to ditch their kiting gear in favor this superior new sport? NO WAY!

What this new "wingythingy" thing is, is a verification of the wall that kite development is up against. R&D is essentially useless in our sport anymore. Sure there are some attempts being made at innovation, but there is no path clear path that advancements in kiting, are on. So we get the watersports MFG's looking to make a buck on something that might be a few year fad to capitalize on.

Re: The Duotone wing

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:45 am
by Jfoil
OzBungy wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:09 am

I have to throw in a Ken Winner/North-now-Duotone rant. I fully accept that he produces fantastic gear. No question about that. Everybody else seems to find inflatable spars work just fine. Duotone have to make a kite wing with an aluminium boom. That's right up there with no-one-pump, 5-lines better than 4-lines and trailing edge battens and no plastic tubing on depower lines. We know they're going to persevere with the boom for a few years then come out with an inflatable one that's "way better than all the others".
I have actually used them. The boom allows you to have a range of power because you can adjust the end to make it flatter, or less flat, depending on conditions. I go 10 miles and sometimes the wind is less and I shorten the boom to get more wing power or extend it to make it flatter. Hang onto wet webbing for 10 miles or even less. When Jibing and using 1 hand, you know where the boom is, and no need to feel around to find a handle. Also control and pumping with a rigid boom is nice too.