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The Duotone Wing

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juandesooka
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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby juandesooka » Tue May 28, 2019 10:54 pm

bragnouff wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:05 pm
I fully understand that in some cases, this might be the right tool for the job. I just have to call bullshit when someone (even someone highly respectable like Ken Winner) makes claims like that one above.

A more correct wording would be "more freedom of motion than either windsurfing or kitesurfing, in conditions you couldn't windsurf nor kitesurf"
The main argument made against the wing on this forum: why would you use this wing when you can just kitesurf instead? This implies wind conditions where you could do either.

Kitesurfing a wave down the line, on a downwind angle, you are attached to a harness attached to 21m of lines, possibly needing to sine or loop the kite to keep it in the air, and possibly straining against the harness on extreme toeside angles while carving. In contrast, with a wing, you might use it to propel into the wave, then let it luff while you surf down the line....no harness, no lines, nothing in the way, nothing to worry about other than surfing it. That seems a lot less constrained and more free.

Same for windsurfing, though way worse, with a pole attached to a track, and it's not even possible to surf the wave in your natural surfing stance.

Flat water lawn mowing ... sure, kite or windsurfer offers up lots more possibilities for speed, tricks, maneuverability, etc. But this is not more freedom of movement, it is freedom to move, as you're attached to a much more powerful wind engine than a handheld wing can possibly allow. Kinda like being towed around by a wake boat or jetski.

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jumptheshark
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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby jumptheshark » Tue May 28, 2019 11:13 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:54 pm

The main argument made against the wing on this forum: why would you use this wing when you can just kitesurf instead? This implies wind conditions where you could do either.

Kitesurfing a wave down the line, on a downwind angle, you are attached to a harness attached to 21m of lines, possibly needing to sine or loop the kite to keep it in the air, and possibly straining against the harness on extreme toeside angles while carving. In contrast, with a wing, you might use it to propel into the wave, then let it luff while you surf down the line....no harness, no lines, nothing in the way, nothing to worry about other than surfing it. That seems a lot less constrained and more free.
Dude! A 150 L board constrains the shit out of your surfing!

Any of the videos I've seen of people using this wing in waves, its pretty darn windy. Sure there are a few clips of people in open water in light winds, but by and large the clips are in 18-20 knots of wind.

You can drift a kite down the line in those winds nearly hands free. Certainly there are many of us who have no difficulty at all kiting down the line on surfboard or foil for entire blissfull sessions with a kite in the air. Does it impact our freedom to surf the wave, you bet it does, in many instances it the only reason we can have any fun in junky blown out surf with unsurfable sections that require kite power to get around.

If your going to argue that the wing leaves you less constrained then you have to acknowledge that large board and foil size do far more to constrain your surfing than a kite. Besides, you still have to hold onto that thing and it is right in your face.

Seems to me while on a wave, a paddle is far less constraining than these big ol wings...… but that's not good marketing now is it?

P.S. just watched a clip of a guy using one on a skateboard..... ridiculous. You scrape the the tips of your new wing! A simple trainer kite can be more fun and far less constraining on a skateboard.

I hope people have fun with them, but the hyperbole in the marketing is lame as f%&k.
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bragnouff
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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby bragnouff » Tue May 28, 2019 11:28 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:54 pm

Kitesurfing a wave down the line, on a downwind angle, you are attached to a harness attached to 21m of lines, possibly needing to sine or loop the kite to keep it in the air, and possibly straining against the harness on extreme toeside angles while carving. In contrast, with a wing, you might use it to propel into the wave, then let it luff while you surf down the line....no harness, no lines, nothing in the way, nothing to worry about other than surfing it. That seems a lot less constrained and more free.
Yeah, but once again, you're eluding the fact that all that freedom of no harness, no lines, nothing in the way, comes with the tradeoff of riding a sizable SUP with a big foil. To be compared with a bit less freedom from being attached to a 7m kite but on a nimbler 5.6 thruster, and a full field of view, assuming bar and leader lines are negligible on that regard.

There's still the constraint of keeping one arm up in the air to hold the wing, which might be detrimental to that elusive freedom of surfing. And being mindful of some shallow parts because of the foil.

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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby juandesooka » Wed May 29, 2019 12:00 am

Seems we're getting into semantics. I am presenting examples where this wing could be fun, because I view this as a continuum: I bring all the toys to the beach, sup, longboard, shortboard, kite surfboard, mako twintip, sup foil, surf foil, kite foil, and I use whichever works best in the conditions. Sometimes I use more than one, as conditions change or as I want a different experience. This wing may fill a couple small gaps in this continuum. Or it may be a fun alternative in some situations. Fun chasing is fluid and dynamic, not a yes/no, on/off, either/or binary thing.

So maybe we agree to disagree. Though we do agree on lame hype marketing, no matter what the product. Another GameChanger, yay ... or maybe that was last year's hype term.
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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby BWD » Wed May 29, 2019 1:12 am

Yo that commentary is next level bro

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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby Toby » Wed May 29, 2019 10:50 am


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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby cor » Wed May 29, 2019 11:40 am

To me, all those "interviews" seem to desperately try to convince kiters and windsurfers about some advantages of that wing. They keep telling us about how the wing is more "freedom" and "you don't need a harness" etc. but they always seem to elude the big elephant in the room:
-As already mentioned, the "freedom" is in reality UPPER BODY ONLY freedom because there is a fucking clunky 150L board involved and a 2000cm2 surf foil. So yeah, maybe it is free, but it is not agile at all.
-Maybe there are some exceptions, but my guess is that this just doesn't look very appealing to most wind- or kitesurfer. Don't know about you guys, but when I see the Duotone guys in this video, I only think about one thing: "Man those conditions are amazing! Why the hell am I not there and ripping my 7m with my 5'1 in these waves right now?!"

They should rather focus on the actual target group. This is, in my opinion, not kiters or windsurfers but people that are ok with less action and thrill and also looking for something less risky and want to avoid getting a boom on their head (although I now see that there is actually again a boom involved ;) ) or tangled in kitelines and of course people that are already doing a lot of SUPping.

Also, I always thought "there must be something appealing... maybe those wings are very affordable then"... but I had to see that some shops list the Duotone wing for over 1000 USD.

In my opinion, Duotone is not doing a good job here with their marketing.

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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed May 29, 2019 12:09 pm

Flash!

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MattyM
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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby MattyM » Wed May 29, 2019 12:36 pm

I reckon you'd do your back in holding that after a while.

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Re: The Duotone Wing

Postby Jfoil » Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm

MattyM wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:36 pm
I reckon you'd do your back in holding that after a while.
Ironically my back gets sore from paddling a sup or sup foil, but not from using the Foil wings. I have been able to go on 12mile downwinder runs daily in Maui, and my back and shoulders are doing great. I’m 47 with lots of prp from other sports.

I agree this shouldn’t be in this forum, it’s not kitesurfing! I love people’s passion for kiteboarding in here, and hating anything that’s not. I’ve just kited for 14 yrs and I like the freedom of the wings, but if you haven’t tried it would be hard to appreciate the feeling out downwinding without crowds or harness or lines and the hydrofoil flying for endless miles.
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