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Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

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Mossy 757
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Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:53 pm

I saw a couple of places have this listed for sale...this is a pre-preg, factory-manufactured version of the Delta Hydrofoil race design (the Delta products are still hand-made in the USA by the designer and his mom). Should come to market soon with a new kite as well for use in One Design course racing.

Exciting stuff!

https://www.asap-direct.com/products/detail/40453/1

https://boardsportscalifornia.com/produ ... -av8-foil/


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Last edited by Mossy 757 on Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tkaraszewski
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby tkaraszewski » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:54 pm

> new kite as well

I'm interested in that. Any more info?

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davesails7
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby davesails7 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:45 pm

tkaraszewski wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:54 pm
> new kite as well

I'm interested in that. Any more info?
I saw the NP FRX kites and hydrofoils at the Fort 2 Battery race in Charleston last year. The NP FRX hydrofoil became this Cabrinha foil.

The NP FRX kite was closely based on the old Cabrinha Velocity, not the newer Apollo, so I would guess the Cabrinha kite to go with this AV8 foil would also be an updated Velocity. Not sure though, could have changed from the FRX.

I heard the FRX kite was based on the Velocity instead of the Apollo because the Apollo was so flat and high aspect that it lost a lot of the benefits of having an inflatable (i.e. easy relaunch by pulling one line).

The FRX kites were surprisingly close upwind as compared to foil kites (I was on Sonic 2 15m vs. a 13m FRX in ~15 knots). Downwind though in 15 knots, the foil kites were getting way lower angles. The FRX 7m and FRX hydrofoil won the fort 2 battery race blowing ~25 kts. The windier it is, the less of a benefit the foil kites have.

Damien Leroy had posted this video a few weeks ago of a mystery kite. From the hangtime, I'm guessing high aspect?
https://www.facebook.com/Damienleroyath ... 3828592245

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davesails7
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby davesails7 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:46 pm

davesails7 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:45 pm
tkaraszewski wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:54 pm
> new kite as well

I'm interested in that. Any more info?
I saw the NP FRX kites and hydrofoils at the Fort 2 Battery race in Charleston last year. The NP FRX hydrofoil became this Cabrinha foil.

The NP FRX kite was closely based on the old Cabrinha Velocity, not the newer Apollo, so I would guess the Cabrinha kite to go with this AV8 foil would also be an updated Velocity. Not sure though, could have changed from the FRX.

I heard the FRX kite was based on the Velocity instead of the Apollo because the Apollo was so flat and high aspect that it lost a lot of the benefits of having an inflatable (i.e. easy relaunch by pulling one line).

The FRX kites were surprisingly close upwind as compared to foil kites (I was on Sonic 2 15m vs. a 13m FRX in ~15 knots). Downwind though in 15 knots, the foil kites were getting way lower angles. The FRX 7m and FRX hydrofoil won the fort 2 battery race when it was blowing ~25 kts. The windier it is, the less of a benefit the foil kites have.

Damien Leroy had posted this video a few weeks ago of a mystery kite. From the hangtime, I'm guessing high aspect?
https://www.facebook.com/Damienleroyath ... 3828592245

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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby boubou » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:28 pm

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davesails7
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby davesails7 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:12 pm

I love the idea of lower cost one design, but I don't really see how this is the answer. Race kites and foils have kept changing and it costs a lot to keep up. What makes this a better "one design" than a Moses Comet and Ozone Edges for example?

Most people who race want foil kites. Racing on a 14m inflatable in 8 knots is not going to be anywhere near as fast/fun as an 18m foil kite. 11m, 15m, 18m makes more sense to me as a 3 kite quiver for racing, since most races wind up being in the 8 kt -22 kt range unless you're in a really windy place like San Francisco.

Someone had the idea of just picking an existing set of used equipment and making that a one design for a local area. R1V2 is a great kite and is widely available used in the $1200-$1500 range now. Last year at the east coast US races, 90% of the fleet was already on the R1V2. Makes more sense to me than convincing everyone to buy a new quiver of Cabrinha inflatables for more money than a quiver of used R1V2's.

Mossy 757
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:25 pm

davesails7 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:12 pm
Makes more sense to me than convincing everyone to buy a new quiver of Cabrinha inflatables for more money than a quiver of used R1V2's.
Yeah, but Cabrinha uses double-ripstop-quantum-magnified-antichaffing-bridled-fireball-gamechanger technology in their kites. I heard R1V2's are made out of 150 thread count Egyptian cotton, so no comparison.
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby bigcane » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:19 am

Sweeting looking foil, but I wonder if they will update the wingtips to flatten and put in some more twist like Moses, chubanga and ML have done. Seems to really help with the tip ventilation. It would seem that we now are close to the plateau of fast hydrofoil design and so anything you buy now will still be good in the next years and so the need for one design is fading. Same for kites, I think for the average racer the second hand r1v2s, sonic races, PLs etc will be just fine. But it could also be a good idea to have an open tube kite class at events to encourage participation, just have to put in some minimum wind limits like 10 to 12 knots for the tubers.

Mossy 757
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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:54 pm

bigcane wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:19 am
Sweeting looking foil, but I wonder if they will update the wingtips to flatten and put in some more twist like Moses, chubanga and ML have done. Seems to really help with the tip ventilation.
I've wondered that as well, from a pragmatic standpoint it seems unlikely that this will get tweaked a ton because they had to buy some really high-end expensive molds to be able to manufacture this at scale from the original design. I've talked to the designer at Delta, George Hradil, a ton about how this all went down, and he was absolutely stoked with the quality and precision of the manufacturing process once they found a partner who was willing to do things the right way. In order to do the manufacturing, he said he had to increase the thickness of the strut a bit but found that it was just as fast and a LOT more stiff this way (because stiffness increases exponentially with thickness). He said this led him to go back to his hand-made race foil and redo the thickness and add more ultra-high modulus to match what he was seeing in the deflection tests from the manufactured version. I have one of those Delta's and side by side with the previous generation strut, you can see the difference in thickness. Subjectively, we haven't ridden each others' boards back to back enough to see if you can feel a difference.

So all of that said, I think this product could be slower to track the cutting edge of hand-built foils because it's being designed for scale manufacturing; I'd watch for that development to come out in the Delta race foil as that will be a better indicator of progress in wingtip technology.
It would seem that we now are close to the plateau of fast hydrofoil design and so anything you buy now will still be good in the next years and so the need for one design is fading. Same for kites, I think for the average racer the second hand r1v2s, sonic races, PLs etc will be just fine. But it could also be a good idea to have an open tube kite class at events to encourage participation, just have to put in some minimum wind limits like 10 to 12 knots for the tubers.
Yeah, and if that's the case and Cabrinha is positioning this as a One Design option like it seems they might, then I think this design is probably not going to change for a long while, if ever. That said, these things go 33+ knots and have beaten other high-end foils in testing between some very good racers that I know, so like how much do we really need to tinker if it's not intended to take down the ML or Chubangas of the world?

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Re: Cabrinha AV8 Full Carbon Race Hydrofoil

Postby Cab Driver » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 pm

Hi All,

I'm glad to see some interest in the AV8. Here's some information.

For normal consumers: The kite is a great hooked in big wind range high performance freeride kite. It has a normal water relaunch. This will be great to rip back and forth on a twin tip and send it, or in light stuff do the same on a high performance foil, if that's your thing. The kite also has very good angles for an inflatable. The control system has a 4 to 1 trim system with adjustable length lines that is designed for racers, but some freeriders that want maximum range from the kite should also like this. Any Cabrinha 4-line control system works with the AV8. The board and foil are absolutely ultra high performance. They go fast, they are rock solid, and easy to ride - the connection is a pro box and allows for a thicker and stiffer mast. Speed + Stability = hammer down and bye bye. It's sick. So if you just want to blow the doors off your friends or haul ass in really light winds, it's amazing. If you want to create a lot of apparent wind when it's light so you can hit the Woo leader board, it's also amazing. The board/foil are extremely competitive on the race course, and they are full production with a warranty.

For Racers: Now, there is a second piece to this. The AV8 kite, control system, and board/foil will be a one-design racing class. There will be an independent class association that will support AV8 racing that racers can join. The goal of one-design is to have a nice set of equipment that allows the best true athlete to win the regatta or race and not just the one who was able to secure the best equipment. This is the true spirit of racing. The gear doesn't change, but that doesn't matter because no advantage is offered to the competitors by way of "better" gear over their competitor. You also don't have to travel with your gear. If you want, you charter gear at the major races because it's identical to what you've been using and training on back home. The list of benefits goes on and on for one-design racing and that's why it's popular in the sailing community. The kite, being inflatable, provides for easy water drift launching from offshore launches or after you've been dropped off by a boat - common with the undeveloped kite launch areas that yacht clubs provide. Also being a popular consumer kite product, there are ample spare parts available around the world and inflatables are known to have a more maintenance free experience.

I'm staring at a stack of AV8 kites that just arrived in my Miami warehouse!! Foils and control systems arrive next month!


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