Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Best pumping foil?

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
NYKiter
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:17 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Style: Wave
Gear: .
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby NYKiter » Fri May 03, 2019 10:30 am

Always looks like they are jacking off when they do this...

gbrungra
Medium Poster
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:53 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Stinky's, San Diego, CA, USA, and Nantucket, MA, USA
Gear: Griffin 17m TRX 2014, Cabrihna 12m Vector 2014, TTs, Camet 160 and SS Hoverglide
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby gbrungra » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:45 am

Optimal front wing area? Or maybe optimal ratio of wing size to rider weight?

Gong has a front wing up to 2400 cm^2.

At some point, drag will overtake lift. Are we there yet?

slowboat
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:55 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Style: wave foiling
Gear: This and that
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby slowboat » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:47 am

gbrungra wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:45 am
Optimal front wing area? Or maybe optimal ratio of wing size to rider weight?

Gong has a front wing up to 2400 cm^2.

At some point, drag will overtake lift. Are we there yet?
The rider weight is a huge factor if pumping without a kite. With a kite, not so much.

You can mitigate the drag with higher aspect ratio but of course, that has its own downsides.

We are definitely not there yet. Foiling is at its infancy. Exciting times.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9510
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 150 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:25 pm

I think the right balance between front wing (big of course) and some area stab, will give you the best pumping capability.

Somewhat like a dinghy with a rudder, where you can pump forward in no wind using your rudder like crazy side to side.

So stabless is apparently no good, in fact one could think a relatively big stab is better than the normal one - but only tests can tell.

I think most use their "normal" foils, so not much testing yet :wink:

8) Peter

dave1986
Frequent Poster
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 3:25 am
Kiting since: 2003
Gear: .
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby dave1986 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:36 am

slowboat wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:47 am
gbrungra wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:45 am
Optimal front wing area? Or maybe optimal ratio of wing size to rider weight?

Gong has a front wing up to 2400 cm^2.

At some point, drag will overtake lift. Are we there yet?
The rider weight is a huge factor if pumping without a kite. With a kite, not so much.

You can mitigate the drag with higher aspect ratio but of course, that has its own downsides.

We are definitely not there yet. Foiling is at its infancy. Exciting times.
It would be great if we could get a wing surface area to ride weight ratio chart going to help us work out the optimal pumping wing for our weight. E.g. if they're using a 2100cm² wing and weigh 70kg then that would be 2100÷70= 30.
At the moment it all seems quite experimental and buying the wrong size wing could be an expensive mistake.

User avatar
Horst Sergio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:57 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Favorite Beaches: Every puddle I can find in Central Europe,
the unpopular the better
Style: SLOW STYLE & stuntkiting
Gear: Just MONOFOILS, no training wheels ;-)
OZONE chrono; FLYSURFER sonic²/r, peak4; CONCEPTAIR firefly; DUOTONE foilwing
Brand Affiliation: KITEJUNKIE.com 's prank monkey
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 32 times
Contact:

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:21 pm

tomtom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:28 pm
Yea but all monos are almost unpumpable right now.
Says who? ... Ok maybe it was me :oops: , but learned a lesson ... :D

Monofoils are pumpable maybe actually for me not completely free hands and for half a minute but after the last experience I would not excluse that if not me somebody will do in the near future.

I started to learn pumping on a kite wing, which is in my eyes by far the best teacher you can have, don't try dock starts etc. it is all waste of time to me, you may do this if you really have learned pumping.
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2402438&p=1064512#p1064512
Another posibility more close for most, not as good but still ok: Take the best drifting and smallest kite in higher winds you can start with (for me Peak4 in 3 and 5 m²) and ride it unhooked only. I also tried to learn a bit pumping hooked, but also here my feeling is, it is nearly useless. Unhooked is not as good as a kitefoil but good enough to learn it. Additionally it is important to bring your foot stance to the boards center line.

I am myself on trial and not sure how far I actually would come just with pumping, but will invest more in training, trimming, testing.
I (63 kg) tested 3 wings till now and the mid size Moses Onda 633 (ca. 1200 cm²) was the best with and without stab aswell. The GONG L (ca. 1500 cm²) felt a bit slow when I was using it with moded low pitched stab and generaly a bit draggy and a bit harder to find the frequenzy as a mono. And the Levitaz Cruizer (1000 cm²) till now just as mono is good, but goes into the direction to be too fast, but should be doable.
tomtom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:28 pm
Stab gives you drive through pump.
Not my impression, stabi just gives stability and its pitch influences pumping frequency at a given strut/pumping high/amplitude, that's all what the stabi does. And this means the stabi pretty much blocks your possiblities appart from creating useless drag. For sure you can do little high frequent pumps or higher amplitude low frequent pumps (if board nose is short and strut long enough to not touch down) but you can't variate as with the mono.
tomtom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:28 pm
Something to push into. Pumping are very physical vs riding on monos which is super finesse. Mono wing had its appear from dawn of aviation but only couple of success.
Indeed the problem is you have to find and define a good feeling pumping frequency yourself, control it and pump with physical effort while aswell with physical effort keeping balance. But as long you do this with a unhooked kite or as I expect even better with a kitewing in your hands stabilizing you, this is doable.

But can't say if we ever will see somebody pumping longer with a mono than with a stabifoil, actualy would expect no, but to me the more important point is, that you can support wing foiling on a mono with pumping which could give this combination (monofoil with kitewing) a great future, which has to be shown aswell for sure.

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1198
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 121 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby tomtom » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:58 pm

All my comments was based from stabiriding perspective - you are stabless pioneer - you know far better than me. Please ignore my comments - everything is developing very fast and nothing is cast in stone.

Thanks for news!

gbrungra
Medium Poster
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:53 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Stinky's, San Diego, CA, USA, and Nantucket, MA, USA
Gear: Griffin 17m TRX 2014, Cabrihna 12m Vector 2014, TTs, Camet 160 and SS Hoverglide
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby gbrungra » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:08 am

Competition will help. As soon as enough people are able to flatwater start a SUP foil, then supfoils can start competing in sup races. Standard distances are 200m, 4km, 8km, and 16km.

Just as relaunchability is the limiting factor for some kite uses, flatwater start-ability should be the goal of foil/sup-board design, until enough people can do it that we can have races.

Easier to learn to pump w a kite than behind a boat?

User avatar
Horst Sergio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:57 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Favorite Beaches: Every puddle I can find in Central Europe,
the unpopular the better
Style: SLOW STYLE & stuntkiting
Gear: Just MONOFOILS, no training wheels ;-)
OZONE chrono; FLYSURFER sonic²/r, peak4; CONCEPTAIR firefly; DUOTONE foilwing
Brand Affiliation: KITEJUNKIE.com 's prank monkey
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 32 times
Contact:

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby Horst Sergio » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:14 pm

Hi Tom,
sorry didn't want your statement into wront light. For sure experience is permanently progressing for everybody. Hope to come back with further infos in the next time.
Have written here a bit more about the mono perspective: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2393935&p=1065965#p1065965

gbrungra
Medium Poster
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:53 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Stinky's, San Diego, CA, USA, and Nantucket, MA, USA
Gear: Griffin 17m TRX 2014, Cabrihna 12m Vector 2014, TTs, Camet 160 and SS Hoverglide
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Best pumping foil?

Postby gbrungra » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:47 am

How about optimal board volume to flatwater foil SUP start?

Or optimal board volume /rider weight? Liter/kG? Or kg of rider weight per liter of board volume?

I’m thinking of buying a Gong foil sup setup for flatwater foiling this fall. What board size should I get if my goal is to learn to flatwater foil start?

Disclaimer, I am a fit 36 year old male, and plan to use a stationary rope (on a bridge) and river flow to learn to pump up and get a feel for the foil before trying to flatwater sup start it.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: drsurf, Leelanau and 11 guests