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The Naish Wing-Surfer

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cglazier
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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby cglazier » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:27 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:46 pm
Although, on all pictures I see, it is REALLY windy always, so apparently not a light wind option in any way :roll: 8) PF
Actually Peter if you look closely at the Robby Naish video or the Bernd Roediger video on page 3 of this thread you will see no whitecaps and quite light wind.
:wink: CG

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juandesooka
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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby juandesooka » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:13 pm

I am with Ronnie. I'd try this for sure, but I am a surfer-kiter-kitefoiler who has now invested a year in learning to SUP foil. So yes, a niche within a niche, but for what I do, this presents fun possibilities. My big wing can ride the smallest of swells, barely even noticable as a wave -- and riders better than me can pump seemingly endlessly in flat water. So with even a tiny bit of wind power added, seems to me you could have an endless downwinder in light winds, surf the swells with the wind luffed, then engage it when you need a boost. That sounds fun to me, and fun is what we're here for.

SUP/surf foil downwinders are a thing that people focus on -- though not me yet, as when it's windy, I am kiting. From what I've read, it's very hard work, unless you have a tow, have to paddle your a** off to get enough speed to catch wind swells. So, adding wind power seems much more civilized. And without the bulky logistical challenges of mast/boom/fixed sail and also without 300 feet of kite lines and an underpowered kite that needs to be endlessly looped, rather than focusing on surfing the waves.

It's interesting how slingshot posted the first video a month ago, as a wing designed 10 years ago now resurfacing -- with the addition of foils being the magic ingredient. Then all of a sudden 3-4 other brands introduce the same thing, within weeks. It's almost like there's a factory in China pumping these out.

Anyways, I am intrigued, not even close to considering buying one though. I am awaiting the magic PM offering to sponsor my use in return for rad pimping online. Or a cheap used one from bored early adopter. Or ye olde alibaba back-of-the-truck sale. Actually what I may do is play around with my 3m prodigy, see if I can adapt it to be usable, give it a try on some long mellow summer thermal day. If it works, I'll bring it to Sp Banks for you to try Slappy. ;-)

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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby Toby » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:38 pm

I think once one released the info the others had to follow.
I am sure they worked on it since a while now in secret.

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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby jumptheshark » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:20 pm

BWD wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:40 pm
It IS competing mostly with the paddle, Hence it will get derision from kiters like me on kite forums like this.
Derision?
At this point you are just trolling and trying to shut down discussion

Also consider this:

Are the wingophobic secretly hiding wing-loving tendencies? Maybe they are subconsciously frothing for a better video of hot wing action to drop....

Whether it works better than a windsurfer or worse, it looks easier to transport by car, train or plane
Ha, I don't know if I'd go as far as trolling, but I gotta say, I can't believe I'm the only one taking the piss about this little marketing frenzy.

There is lots of room on the internet and I certainly am not under the allusion that my opinion would shut down discussion.

Saddly, until there is a little more consistency to our season, you will have to put up with my opinions..... on pretty much EVeRYTHING!

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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:34 pm

cglazier wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:27 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:46 pm
Although, on all pictures I see, it is REALLY windy always, so apparently not a light wind option in any way :roll: 8) PF
Actually Peter if you look closely at the Robby Naish video or the Bernd Roediger video on page 3 of this thread you will see no whitecaps and quite light wind.
:wink: CG

Hi Chris, something seems odd :roll:

With a 5 m2 kite where you can get a lot more peak power to get up foiling, we usually want around 14 knots to be able to foil even with huge surf wings.

With a windfoil, and a 5 m2 sail, you need around 14-15 knots also as far as I know.

Meaning, both will only ride when whitecaps all over, a lot of them in fact, quite windy so to speak if 15 knots.

So how should a handheld 4½ or 5 m2 sail be able to start in somewhat less wind?

Or is it because they scale the wings up to double size, crawl up on the board and stand on it, and then pump it up, maybe using the sail to get even more weightless?

It still sounds a bit odd why a wing-surfer should be able to go lower than a kite or windfoil IMO - thats why I am sceptical about that very part, and on the pictures I see there are many whitecaps and it seems pretty windy.
Could be wrong, but difficult to see how it should work in less wind than kite/windfoils :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby ronnie » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:57 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:34 pm
cglazier wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:27 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:46 pm
Although, on all pictures I see, it is REALLY windy always, so apparently not a light wind option in any way :roll: 8) PF
Actually Peter if you look closely at the Robby Naish video or the Bernd Roediger video on page 3 of this thread you will see no whitecaps and quite light wind.
:wink: CG

Hi Chris, something seems odd :roll:

With a 5 m2 kite where you can get a lot more peak power to get up foiling, we usually want around 14 knots to be able to foil even with huge surf wings.

With a windfoil, and a 5 m2 sail, you need around 14-15 knots also as far as I know.

Meaning, both will only ride when whitecaps all over, a lot of them in fact, quite windy so to speak if 15 knots.

So how should a handheld 4½ or 5 m2 sail be able to start in somewhat less wind?

Or is it because they scale the wings up to double size, crawl up on the board and stand on it, and then pump it up, maybe using the sail to get even more weightless?

It still sounds a bit odd why a wing-surfer should be able to go lower than a kite or windfoil IMO - thats why I am sceptical about that very part, and on the pictures I see there are many whitecaps and it seems pretty windy.
Could be wrong, but difficult to see how it should work in less wind than kite/windfoils :wink:

8) Peter
This is a 4.5m sail, 86 litre board and 1349sq cm wing, and he says the wind is less than 10 knots.


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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:16 pm

I might stand corrected then :wink:

So maybe windfoil and wing-surf foil can ride in less wind than we can with kitefoils, because they can stand/uphaul on their boards, and the now even bigger wings makes it possible to ride :D

On a kitefoil with a LEI 4.5 m2 kite we can not get our asses up on the board in sub 10 knots, so here is a practical limit.

Even when up, I doubt I can kitefoil with a 4.5 m2 in less than 10 knots, even on a huge wing :roll:

This is where the physics dont add up IMO, a bit odd in fact.

8) Peter

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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby Slappysan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:16 pm
So maybe windfoil and wing-surf foil can ride in less wind than we can with kitefoils, because they can stand/uphaul on their boards
There is nothing stopping you from using a SUP to bolt your foil on and go kiting, it's just that because we are so used to small light boards the idea of a 25 lbs 7 foot board seems aweful to us.

I am able to water start on my 25L board with big surf wing in 9 knots with my 5m Peak 4 kite. Granted it's far from easy and what I have to do is use the first kiteloop to sink the board under water with my feet on top and then use 2-3 more loops to get some forward speed to pull the whole rig up to the surface. This means I need deep water (6 feet or more).

If you don't have to pull the rider out of the water you need way less power. Also keep in mind they probably have 2-3 foot cross shore swell which helps a great deal at getting up on to foil. Robbie looks to be using a rather large wing in that video too, maybe 6m.

I think that a single skin kite mixed with a low volume SUP would be a far more fun option for pretty much anyone on this forum than any of these wings as long as you have space to launch your kite (that's one area the wing wins in).

Most of us on here don't have a SUP foil board though, me included.

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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby Flyfish » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:02 pm

Maybe all the Debbie the Downers can just leave the conversation.

I was a windsurfer back in the day just like half the other folks on here. Only I was a hard core wave snob. Then in 1999 I saw my first kitesurfer. I thought it looked lame. Then I told a buddy that I saw a kiter and I thought it looked stupid just getting pulled downwind on flat water. Right then he made me a bet. He said in one year, your doing that. He won.

I'm still a rediculus wave snob. But just look at what we are now able to do ridding waves with kites. I NEVER would have thought I'd get barreled with a kite.

Re-inventing these wings is fucking rad. Yea, it's all in the lame looking stage right now. But like my friend bet me back then, I'm going to bet myself now: In one year from now, I'm ridding one of these things hooking wave after wave stoked.

Debbie the Downers: leave the room. Come back when it's "cool" enough for you.
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juandesooka
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Re: The Naish Wing-Surfer

Postby juandesooka » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:03 pm

PF physics: I think maybe ice kiting or land boarding may be a better comparison. If you are floating on top of the water, there is very little drag/friction, you wouldn't need much wind to get you moving the 5kts or so required to get up on a large wing. Also keep in mind that surf/sup foilers can pump and ride with zero wind and zero waves, needing even less boost to start or keep going.

JTShark: "I can't believe I'm the only one taking the piss about this little marketing frenzy.". The only one? Dude, get on instragram or facebook, there's an entire symphony of haters out there on this, you'd be 7th violin at best. I'd say the hater-to-stoked ratio is roughly 19:1. I've been a little disheartened by the reaction actually. I expect the surfing community to be close-minded and judgemental about anything new: "if it isn't a 6x19 shortboard, then it isn't surfing", etc. But the similar attitude from kiting, windsurfing, and SUP groups was interesting -- quite frankly, each of these groups is disliked by other water sports users for being disruptors. So it seems odd to see the agents of change so offended by something else new or innovative or experimental. But I probably shouldn't really be surprised, with the deep divisions in kiting ... wakestyle is lame, airstyle is lame, boots are lame, strapless is lame, race foil is lame, freeride foil is lame, yadda yadda. Seems our self-defined categories get increasingly narrow.

Anyways, as you say, this thread is maybe misplaced, not really about "kiting", nor about windsurfing, surfing, or foiling. it falls right in the middle somewhere.
Last edited by juandesooka on Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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