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Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

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Tom Tom
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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby Tom Tom » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 pm

Having read this, I thought I would seek out how fast I could go on the 633. Reasonably new to foiling, so no skill-set to talk of having been on a foil for 10 surf days total since late 2018. Managed 38km/h (20,5kn) today without feeling out of control at all. This was under an Ozone Edge 10m in about 14 knots of wind (Moses T38, 91cm mast, 483 stab). Expect that I could easilly do 40+ with some more attempts. I do get some shimmy sometimes, seems to be related to foot positioning. Was about to order the 683S but sort of realized the difference might not be that big; the 633 has a broad speed range.

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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby bigwave » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:05 pm

I spent 2 weeks in Cuba recently using the 633 and 683s with the Moses T38LTD and T22 Red Board. Kited every day with winds from 6-8 knots to 20-25 knots over the 14 day period. I was very familiar with the 633 wing having used it since last summer. It was my first experience with the 683s and T22.
The best top speed I attained with the 633 was 41.2 KPH (22.25 Knots) and the 683s 41.3 KPH (22.3 Knots). I was on a 71cm which leaves little margin for error at the higher speeds.On a longer mast I could easily go faster but.... The average speeds are what's interesting. A typical 1 hr session on the 633 would result in an avg speed around 27-29 KPH. The same session on the 683s was typically around 30-32 KPH. I'm not a straight line type rider. I turn a lot ,upwind down wind carving so your results may vary.
What I thought was interesting is that the 683s felt faster all the time!. The data only indicated it was marginally faster.
The 2 things I really liked about the 683s compared to the 633 was, I thought it felt better when carving turns. At first I though it was possibly the T22 which is really fun to ride and Has very little swing weight when turning but, Even on the T38 the 683s felt better carving.
The other thing I really liked was that the foil did not sit on its side with the 683s.I realized its a wing thing and the 633 would side on its side on either board.
I think the 633 is better overall but I really enjoyed the feel the 683s provided. I think if you were a lighter person, say 180lbs and down getting 683s over the 633 would make sense. I let a couple people try them(never having rode either wing) and each person liked the 633 better. If you already have a 633 , I hope this report helped you decide if you want to get the 683s. If you are focusing on the speed, a 637,645 or even a 590 would be a better choice than the 683s. Any questions or comments please let me know.

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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby Tom Tom » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:55 pm

Thanks, excellent input. Pretty much convinced me I should spend my money on a T22 to complement my T38 instead of getting a 683S.

Question if I may - how did the fixed holes om the T22 work out with the 633 on surf fuselage together with foot strap positions?

I saw this fellow sporting what looks like a 590 or something together with straps on it, so perhaps the 633 means only strapless to be able to shift body CG somewhat fwd?


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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby bigwave » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:28 pm

I ride strapless on both the T38 and T22. I noticed with the 633 wing, my front foot position was where the inserts were for the foot straps. With 683s, my front foot position was slightly further back than the 633 position. I think the foot straps would work. On the T22 there are 3 positions for the straps(front only, no rear strap).
In the video you posted, that is a T38 Red Carbon which has 2 positions(Thru Hull) to mount the foil. 633/683s in the back ,590 front position.
Something to keep in mind about the T22. This is a board for an advanced foiler who can air gybe ,toe side ,blah blah blah...It's not at all user friendly on the water. After riding both back to back, the T38 is much more user friendly depending on your skill set.
That said, I love riding the T22!!!!
On another note, Moses has replaced the MFS Fuselage with a new MFS710 Fuselage. Slightly shorter(710mm) and it positions the mast closer to the trailing edge of the wing. I have not tried it yet.

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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:54 pm

bigwave wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:05 pm
I spent 2 weeks in Cuba recently using the 633 and 683s with the Moses T38LTD and T22 Red Board. Kited every day with winds from 6-8 knots to 20-25 knots over the 14 day period. I was very familiar with the 633 wing having used it since last summer. It was my first experience with the 683s and T22.
The best top speed I attained with the 633 was 41.2 KPH (22.25 Knots) and the 683s 41.3 KPH (22.3 Knots). I was on a 71cm which leaves little margin for error at the higher speeds.On a longer mast I could easily go faster but.... The average speeds are what's interesting. A typical 1 hr session on the 633 would result in an avg speed around 27-29 KPH. The same session on the 683s was typically around 30-32 KPH. I'm not a straight line type rider. I turn a lot ,upwind down wind carving so your results may vary.
Snip...

Hmmm, you say you are not a straight line rider, but then you ride extremely fast/powered I think?

This is interesting :D

I just checked a recent GPS when out on a smaller wing sub 800 cm2, which rides a bit faster than the 633 or any 1200 cm2 wing.

When doing many sequential turns downwind on a wave or in chop/flat, average speed is 17-19 km/h (9-10 knots) during these.

When going upwind average speed without transitions is 25-26 km/h (14 knots).

When cruising downwind deep, average speed is 26-27 km/h, sometimes 30 (15 sometimes 17 knots).

Can go somewhat over 40 on a reach or broad reach (tried yesterday just to see), but not fun so almost never do it, as I want to turn and carve and make donuts all the time instead :thumb:

Anyways, my point is, if you bigwave, have an average speed of 28 and 31 km/h on a full session with your two wings, you must be riding extremely fast, or I must be extremely slow, or you are above average weight.

My average on this track with this smaller/faster wing is 20 km/h (11 knots) over a full hour, even with the crashes, @ 77 kg and strapless.
Just removed the crashes I had from the gps track, it actually does not raise the average speed over a full session significantly, less than 1 km/h difference.

Just calculated on tkaraszewski's 23 sets of numbers, and he rides just below 20 km/h over the full session in average also, same as me (crashes included in his too).

And I would believe it is even slower on my 1200 cm2 wing of course, dont know, it might be about the same actually :roll:


But very odd that you ride 50 % faster than we do, in average, even as a "not straight lines rider", that was what I found really interesting :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby bigwave » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:58 am

I provided some data to someone who wanted opinions on the Moses 633/683s wings.

I don't care at all about your numbers or anyone else's for that matter.

Thanks
Last edited by bigwave on Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby grtlakes » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:05 am

You kill me Dave.

Nice review thanks.
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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:29 am

bigwave wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:58 am
I provided some data to someone who wanted opinions on the Moses 633/683s wings.

I don't care at all about your numbers or anyone else's for that matter.

Thanks

Yes I know, but it is on the same wing, the 683, that's why it is interesting and amazing there can be such a big difference in average speed, from 11 to over 16 knots (20 to 31 km/h) :wink:

No pun intended here, just an observation that might be of use for Wazza Kitefoil also as it shows that identical gear can be ridden with a lot of different speeds, even when we all "think" we ride the same way - which we apparently don't.

This could be the reason why the OP see someone playing around still going faster than him, even when new to foiling.

So some more numbers for Wazza Kitefoil, and the consolation that many others struggle from 18 knots indeed, while others just ride a lot faster even when not trying to :D

Speed will come progressively over time if you want it and always try to push it.
If you don't, I think 18 knots is really well done and no reason to go faster than that :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby grigorib » Sat May 04, 2019 4:13 pm

WH Lithuania wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:27 pm


This is on Onda 633 on 111cm mast. Will try 683S when I finally get it, but based on the numbers other posted it doesn't look any faster than 633.
683s feels faster, goes faster and it’s a superior wing to 633. I start thinking of 633 really belonging to surf style. The 683s is amazing. I deeply regret I haven’t got it a year ago.

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Re: Moses 683 top speed, what style and conditions.

Postby Foil » Sat May 04, 2019 4:41 pm

I have found that I am preferring the 633 in bigger waves with shorter space between the peaks, also where the need to instantly pop up in shallow shore break with onshore conditions,typically 8mtr kite and smaller kite conditions.

the 683s I prefer to use in lighter airs and flatter conditions 9 -12mtr kite, where the 683s will track faster, and the board will spin around more quickly to mitigate the slack line problem in very light airs.
but I am still discovering what I like most about each wing, and even after many many sessions on each wing I keep finding more reasons why I like one over the other,

the main point is they are both different, offering a different feel and it will take forever to decide which is the best,
it will be which is best for how i feel on the day, they are both brilliant.
you need both!
two wives are best, if you know what I mean.


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