Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

statement from Lou

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 38814
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 196 times
Contact:

Re: statement from Lou

Postby Toby » Thu May 02, 2019 1:22 am

Looks like a lot of competitors....

viewtopic.php?t=2402867

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2779
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Fortnite XP Level 36 INSTA: #kitekooks
Gear: Wing Surfer XL (3.4m Dynamic Pro Carbon Edition) with Woo attachment. (1st on Woo leader board last Monday in my Town).
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: statement from Lou

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu May 02, 2019 2:26 am

Toby wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:22 am
Looks like a lot of competitors....

viewtopic.php?t=2402867
Good on them and good luck to them. Fact is there are literally no other female racers in many of these represented countries for them even to race against - seems a bit rich considering the IOCs agenda in choosing gender inclusive popular sports, many countries still have no representation at all. They were advertising for youth olympic competitors - no experience required, and still couldnt get enough competitors to make it a fair competition.



Anyway this is about how the opinion that the industry has gone downhill (less younger riders coming into the sport), and I agree with lou. Kiteboarding has for sure suffered as a result overall.

It was all very predicable that the olympics and in particular being controlled by another sport (sailing ) would result is kiteboarding represented according to profitability, not participation levels and gender inclusiveness. Industry tags along hoping for profit and forgets about its grassroots.

I think that is a great shame, it doesn't /didn't need to be that way. When people are justifying the cost of olympic kiteboarding using the most ridiculous example of all - cycling ( one bike was 150 000 euros - they have spares - the only requirement is it has to be for sale to the public too) something is very wrong IMO. Many of us pay in our taxes towards olympic campaigns.

I support a new generation of kiters and affordability is the biggest part of that.
Last edited by longwhitecloud on Thu May 02, 2019 2:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

PullStrings
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:54 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: LEI's & Surfboards
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: statement from Lou

Postby PullStrings » Thu May 02, 2019 2:26 am

No need for fins.....no need for anything sticking out under the board.....use that rail....spray away !!

Image
Last edited by PullStrings on Thu May 02, 2019 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drsurf
Rare Poster
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:42 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NSW South Coast
Gear: Too much too describe
Brand Affiliation: Whatever i sell
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: statement from Lou

Postby drsurf » Thu May 02, 2019 3:26 am

@longwhitecloud - bullshit again.
I could get a young, keen, female kiteboarder in my region industry sponsorship right now. There's nothing stopping them in Australia, certainly not money if you're keen. There is just a lack of interest, especially in outdoor sports.
We have had some success however in surfing, virtually all from one local family. Both brother and sister surfers are on the world tour and have championship results. And no they didn't have to buy their own gear, they are so good they have great sponsorship deals and prizemoney.

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2779
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Fortnite XP Level 36 INSTA: #kitekooks
Gear: Wing Surfer XL (3.4m Dynamic Pro Carbon Edition) with Woo attachment. (1st on Woo leader board last Monday in my Town).
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: statement from Lou

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu May 02, 2019 6:16 am

drsurf wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 3:26 am
@longwhitecloud - bullshit again.
I could get a young, keen, female kiteboarder in my region industry sponsorship right now. There's nothing stopping them in Australia, certainly not money if you're keen. There is just a lack of interest, especially in outdoor sports.
We have had some success however in surfing, virtually all from one local family. Both brother and sister surfers are on the world tour and have championship results. And no they didn't have to buy their own gear, they are so good they have great sponsorship deals and prizemoney.
I agree on the lack of interest in foil racing, never was any to start with - never existed... that is why... same reason why a rider that is novice stands a chance of sponsorship until there are any actual competitors to start making any money from for the sponsor... that is business.

Lack of interest in outdoor sport? Australian female olympic competitors outnumbered male in Rio. Australia probably has one of the highest female participation rates in sport in the world. Like your example with surfing, who has more - no one, who has better - no one. Australia is always doing well in athletics.

Plenty of female kiters doing other kiting disciplines.

Being able to afford a JS surfboard and olympic kitesurfing kit.. different ballparks $899 vs $19 000 - will we see full carbon boards in olympic surfing - hopefully not - I really doubt it.... one of the reasons IOC wanted sailing disciplines out was due to cost - and then this......

It is quite something when sailing is struggling to recruit any kiters but a token 1 or 2 riders in a whole country, it speaks volumes into why there were better choices than thi$. It's so wrong and goes against the values that IOC state regarding 2019 - affordability, female inclusiveness and participation . . . $ talks

A single WCT event (not even the champion) - women first prize money $100 000 US

mikesids
Medium Poster
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:15 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Pt Chev, Auckland
Favorite Beaches: Aitutaki lagoon, Cook Islands
Style: Foil, surf, speed, jumping, freestyle
Gear: F One Furtives / FS Souls for speed, Airush Ultra's for freeride foiling , Chrono UL for freerace foiling, Parks, Bandit and Union for all round, JShapes / Levitaz / Spitfire XLW foil, F One AC21 Speed boards, Groove Skate
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: statement from Lou

Postby mikesids » Thu May 02, 2019 6:50 am

@longwhitecloud
Lack of interest in foil racing? Current event in Italy with 87 male competitors , and 30 females?

And a young French ex TT racer in the top 10 after day 1?

Sorry to say but case closed bro. 100 racers says you are wrong as far as they are concerned. Foil racing is here to stay, with kites, cats and Am Cup. And it in no way affects my ability to go Twin tipping , or foiling at my local . Second hand gear is cheap and plentiful on TradeMe.

Appreciate Lou's mad skills in that video footage from back in the day but things move on......

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2779
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Fortnite XP Level 36 INSTA: #kitekooks
Gear: Wing Surfer XL (3.4m Dynamic Pro Carbon Edition) with Woo attachment. (1st on Woo leader board last Monday in my Town).
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: statement from Lou

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 am

mikesids wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:50 am
@longwhitecloud
Lack of interest in foil racing? Current event in Italy with 87 male competitors , and 30 females?

And a young French ex TT racer in the top 10 after day 1?

Sorry to say but case closed bro. 100 racers says you are wrong as far as they are concerned. Foil racing is here to stay, with kites, cats and Am Cup. And it in no way affects my ability to go Twin tipping , or foiling at my local . Second hand gear is cheap and plentiful on TradeMe.

Appreciate Lou's mad skills in that video footage from back in the day but things move on......


Foil Racing Nationals By country

New Zealand

Total participants: 7 . (i am not counting those that were "Did Not Competes for all races" or drop bears), 3 were all DNCs.

Total no of kiwi female competitors: 1

No of young riders : Looks very low, tell me otherwise.

Australia

Total participants:10

Total no of Australian female competitors: 1

No of young riders : Looks very low, tell me otherwise.

My grip isnt specifically enjoying foiling, my own brother is an addict, I am a friends foil thief and have an occasional burn, me and a friend built the first ally and wood foil that Liquid Force seemed to like on this forum years ago ;-)

It is that the kiteboarding industry has sold kiteboarding short by participating in the ransoming of the term "World kiteboarding Championships" using World Sailing legal funds. As a wave rider and freestyle we are now left with world tours that offers potentially $200 prize money for a competitor and no expenses where the people that run the event (the GKA - they are the kite brands) are also the ones paying their sponsored riders to attend , using the exposure of their podium riders for instagram marketing, and choosing the judging criteria and judges.

Meanwhile there are a tonne of good freestyle and wave riders that are not sponsored by the GKA kite companies that cannot afford to attend, but from a business point of view the GKA brands gets the world title exposure and it's associated $ value. New Zealands own Marc Jacobs is an example, best powered allround freestyler in the world (well kevin fans wont agree lol - he is certainly slowing down though power wise)

It is a huge conflict of interest when Olympic funding is involved and morally wrong, and this is certainly one of the reasons why I think the kiteboarding industry has gone downhill.

I don't agree that kiteboarding is sailing whatsoever, but if it is in the eyes of Sailng and they are getting funded - share the funding.... freestyle, waveriding and youth development of young kiteboarders in NZ.

You can't have your cake and eat it . . if as I suspect they paid expanses for the riders to attend the world championships.



8 years later after all this crap when Sailing NZ tried to steal kiteboardings intellectual property at their meeting as they were sooo clueless and might I add dangerous, NZ has 7 participants in the foiling nationals 2019 up from 2 in 2011.

I think there were 90 competitors for freestyle 8 years ago, and we have plenty of waveriding gurus.


So yes kiteboarding got more technical and expensive and youth participation became far less. The GKA kitebrands under World Sailing get all excited about selling foils and race kites, an in bigger kiting participation from the olympics (going around buoys) as they are now an extra item in addition to a board and cost between $2000 and $4000. The olympic situation regarding foil racing incredibly unfair towards non racers that didnt even want to necessarily be a part of it at all but were happily doing their thing even organising events.




World Sailing and IKA are experts at hyping it all up to try and get the gravy train running ,and the industry has become complicit in this.

How much $ did NZ sailing allocate to kiteboarding this year in NZ?

Enjoy your foiling but this is the actual situation and the level of participation in 2019, in NZ and Australia. It is all very Eurocentric.





References:
https://www.takapunaboating.org.nz/site ... al-results
https://www.regattatoolbox.com/results? ... Gpgk1DtN3i

User avatar
bragnouff
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 99
Local Beach: New Brighton
Gear: Alkita boards
Zeeko foil
GK Trix
Enduro9
Brand Affiliation: GK enthusiast
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 18 times
Contact:

Re: statement from Lou

Postby bragnouff » Thu May 02, 2019 9:55 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 am

Enjoy your foiling but this is the actual situation and the level of participation in 2019, in NZ and Australia. It is all very Eurocentric.
I won't go into politics of GKA / Olympics, etc... but just from an observation point of view, could it be that there is a bit of local bias at play here, and overall in this discussion?

OZ, NZ, Hawaii,... are all blessed with quality waves on a regular basis, with a well established surf culture. It's no surprise that the local riders would still favor surfing over foiling. Similarly, places with strong winds and flat water would retain more of the TT riders culture. I bet there isn't a big share of foilers in Cape Town or in Brazil's NE.

Point is, in many parts of the world with big population of addicted riders and less than ideal conditions, foiling became a necessity, like kiteboarding became a necessity in the late 90s among frustrated windsurfers desperate to get good sessions more than twice a month. If those riders had regular deliveries of 25+kts with waves, they wouldn't have embraced kiteboarding like they did. And those kiteboarders wouldn't have embraced foiling if they didn't have plagues of sub 15kts days coupled with overpopulation and restricted spots.
That, to me explains why this appears very Eurocentric.
The negative aspects of foiling, danger, price, cumbersomeness, are also well known over there, but they are balanced by the one positive aspect which is that it makes it possible to get quality water time.


Maui is probably a bit of a special case, as it's a laboratory of all things watersports. Things are partially born or developed there, and exported to the world, so it's expected to see lots of everything there, at least temporarily, even if conditions would allow a healthy windsurfing/kite-surfing community. And I thing this local bias applies to Lou's intent, who is lucky to have decent conditions in his backyard, and not seeing the grim conditions of riders elsewhere and their necessity to foil.

Many would prefer to ride a 7m on a surfboard if given the opportunity. And hopefully Lou will get to design that 7m again!


It's all very close to the mechanisms of Evolution of species, adaptation to the local environment, survival of the fittest. Some species of kiters will die off in some parts of the world and thrive in others, some differentiation in those species will become so profound that inter-species breeding will eventually become impossible. That's the way of life!
These users thanked the author bragnouff for the post (total 3):
Toby (Thu May 02, 2019 10:34 am) • evan (Thu May 02, 2019 10:36 am) • Oldman (Thu May 02, 2019 4:35 pm)
Rating: 30%

drsurf
Rare Poster
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:42 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: NSW South Coast
Gear: Too much too describe
Brand Affiliation: Whatever i sell
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: statement from Lou

Postby drsurf » Thu May 02, 2019 12:36 pm

@ longwhitecloud. Foiling is not just about racing. Virtually no-one here is interested in racing whether it be on a foil, sailboard or SUP. There is yacht racing because of an incredible volunteer spirit that has members forgo racing to lay the course, run the safety boat and do the scoring. That's the hardest part of having something organised and it's still hard to get people interested. There is a community sailing club visible to me across the water from my house. They have open days, pocket change membership which gives free use of catamarans, yachts, sailboards whatever. Still hard to get people involved with virtually no cost. It's nothing to do with the olympics or a global sailing organisation conspiracy.
When a catamaran hire closed up here a few years ago one of the youths who spent a little time there was offered a catamaran for free. He declined.

Australians are relatively wealthy people, but they have other priorities either with work or in front of a screen. Unfortunately we are one of the fattest countries in the western world. Gone are the days of kids being told to play outside until the sun goes down. When it comes to water sports some Australians are quite happy to spend $50,000 on a fishing boat setup that they can get out on the ocean with. Or a $100,000 plus wake boat or $10,000 plus jetski. Even though they may use these toys just a few times a year. You can foil where I live 150 + days a year if you're keen.

There is so much opportunity if you just take a look and speak to a few people. The arguments you are running longwhitecloud are spurious, straw men. (You may have to look that up.) Basically your opinion is misguided by cherry picking facts to make a point. Fake news actually :D

You need to get off your keyboard in your mums basement and get out in the real world. Do something positive and then write about it.

User avatar
jumptheshark
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 609
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 77 times

Re: statement from Lou

Postby jumptheshark » Thu May 02, 2019 1:23 pm

This whole $19,000 bullshit is a bit over the top. I'm not sure I've invested that much on kite gear in the 15 years I've been doing it. The truth is, for the well informed, this sport is one of the cheapest and best bang for your buck out there. The used market is the ripest I've ever seen it. Any kid with drive could get into kiting, foiling included for cheap.

Bought a used 9m kite for $235 last year. It's awesome. You can find a foil for $500 inside of ten minutes. You can make a board to bolt it too for under $50. That alone would get you out and foiling at my local more days than anyone ever prior to foiling.

Second hand gear is cheap as shit. There are almost 100 used foil only listings on ikitesurf right now, another 60 complete with board.

If there is no youth in the sport, its not cost. I routinely see "youth" driving around our university town in $100,000.00 cars.

Maybe the spot used to be cooler and we have wakestyled all the youth out of it!
These users thanked the author jumptheshark for the post (total 2):
foilholio (Fri May 03, 2019 4:53 am) • cor (Fri May 03, 2019 9:19 am)
Rating: 20%


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron