Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders
Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1087
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Matteo V » Thu May 02, 2019 3:38 pm

What are some of the disadvantages of larger foil wings? I know that top speed is limited with most surf/windsurf foils when used with a kite. But what should one expect to have to overcome when going from a smaller foil to a larger one?


Some of my assumptions would be:

1. Larger wings will be harder to control if you become overpowered in the kite and not allow you to go downwind with as much control when overpowered.
2. Larger wings will not let you ride with the board on the water downwind in overpowered conditions.
3. Larger wings will have a narrower range where you can "hold down" or "correct" the pitch of a wing.

Any thoughts on my assumptions?

Foil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition (number 3)
2019 Groove Skates, 120 + 130 both full naked carbon with gold stripes
101cm Moses Carbon mast
71+90cm Slingshot masts with moses adaptor
Moses- 633 wing set
Moses - 683s wing set
Ozone V4 Reo 6/7/8/9
Ozone Alpha V1 10/12
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars with Q power lines
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings???

Postby Foil » Thu May 02, 2019 4:49 pm

all above is correct,
but you learn to use much smaller kites to mitigate the points you have correctly mentioned.
the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages the normal free ride foiler is happiest with.
but having a choice of foils is a good back guard for the days you just fancy a change.
I do,
but never, or should I say hardly ever screw them in place.
same story with my twin tip, I take it with me when the wind may pick up, but never bother to use it.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 9158
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 73 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings???

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu May 02, 2019 4:53 pm

The disadvantages of big wings are IMO:

Feels and is slow and draggy - it is all about the feel.

When jumping you dont get as much speed (=height), and you might break your hydrofoil as the bigger wings put loads of stress on your gear when landing.


I disagree with some of above post though, as IMO they have a bigger windrange than the smaller wings, and easier to control too, also downwind.
You wont get too much speed thus not out of control as you can get on a smaller wing.
So no, IMO it is easy to ride the big wings as they dont accelerate when powered, like the small ones.

I know of at least one foil where the trim is not spot on, so it searches up - but other foils are dead on in trim meaning neutral, and this very foil is something they work on correcting.

The big wings can be extremely boring though, especially in flat water, thus sub 1000 cm2 feels often much more fun here :rollgrin:


Advantage of big wingss:

You can start in less wind, or ride with a smaller kite.
You can make narrow slow turns, good for waves or learnng.
You will often learn transitions easier on these.
You dont get too much speed and lose control, thus good in waves or downwind or when learning.

8) PF

tswierkocki
Frequent Poster
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:16 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Style: Hydrofoil, Surf, Freeriding
Gear: 3.7m to 10.4m Cloud kites
Cloud 9 S24 surf foil
107cm Kanaha pocket board for kite foiling
4’8” Stretch Trow surfboard
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby tswierkocki » Thu May 02, 2019 5:27 pm

I’m mainly into surf, general cruising, and freeriding so for me the only disadvantage to big wings is that at some point they generate too much lift and become difficult to handle when very powered.

I weigh 75 kg (165 lbs) and always foil with the smallest kite possible.

I spent the last year on the Cloud 9 S24 and recently bought the new X22, X24, and X28 wings to figure out the answer to your question for myself. This is what I found so far:

X22 - Really fun wing but a bit too fast for my liking in waves. Requires more power that X24 and X28.

X24 - Perfect size and speed for me. Not too fast to outrun a wave but fast enough to be interesting in flat water. I ride this wing 90% of the time.

X28 - A lot of fun in lighwind but can be a handful at my weight when fully powered. Faster than I expected due to the high aspect ration.
Attachments
09E47ED6-DDE7-4DDF-84DE-89D529D18EAF.png

slowboat
Frequent Poster
Posts: 353
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:55 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Style: wave foiling
Gear: This and that
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby slowboat » Thu May 02, 2019 5:59 pm

Not sure if the increased drag of bigger wings is a disadvantage or advantage in decent size waves. In small wind chop, you want better glide just to have some fun. I bigger and steeper waves, it seems the drag will help keep you on the wave longer especially is you don’t have the skills to “work the wave”
These users thanked the author slowboat for the post:
Peter_Frank (Thu May 02, 2019 6:44 pm)
Rating: 10%

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1557
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s/633 wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: LF CPR 55cm bar $160
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby grigorib » Thu May 02, 2019 6:25 pm

Let's not confuse large wings (with lower take-of and stall speeds) with thick wings which are slow and draggy.

Few "disadvantages" of large wings are:
- pretty much anybody can foil and it'll be funny to teach someone foiling skipping twintip phase. I guess strapped kitesurfboard can substiture.
- racing world feels less exclusive/elitist
- Door boards and large LEI kites markets are drying out fast
- with more people foiling the twintip world is shaking and becoming a domain of 20+ knots riding
These users thanked the author grigorib for the post:
foilholio (Fri May 03, 2019 5:40 am)
Rating: 10%

User avatar
Slappysan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
Kiting since: 2003
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Slappysan » Thu May 02, 2019 6:44 pm

With my NP Glide L assembled I can't get it in/out of my apartment door (this is without being attached to a board). That's a disadvantage to me!

DAnderson
Medium Poster
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:17 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: SWFL
Gear: .
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby DAnderson » Thu May 02, 2019 6:44 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:25 pm
Let's not confuse large wings (with lower take-of and stall speeds) with thick wings which are slow and draggy.
I felt the thicker-style large wing got overpowered by the kite easier, as it was incapable of the acceleration/speed.

elguapo
Medium Poster
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:01 pm
Favorite Beaches: cabarete, kanaha
Gear: ..
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby elguapo » Thu May 02, 2019 6:57 pm

this may only be slightly on topic...

but is there a reason to NOT use very high aspect wings such the albatross foil from SPG or horue's vini foil?

both are excellent for pumping and are excellent in surf... but neither are marketed for kitesurf.
i'd thinking anything foil you can pump..should be excellent on a small kite (or am i wrong?)

grigorib
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1557
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: OBX; Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; SPI; La Ventana
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Slingshot/Moses 80/91/105cm masts 590/683s/633 wings, Tim's 36" "woody", Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: LF CPR 55cm bar $160
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby grigorib » Thu May 02, 2019 7:06 pm

elguapo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:57 pm
this may only be slightly on topic...

but is there a reason to NOT use very high aspect wings such the albatross foil from SPG or horue's vini foil?

both are excellent for pumping and are excellent in surf... but neither are marketed for kitesurf.
i'd thinking anything foil you can pump..should be excellent on a small kite (or am i wrong?)
Small wings have challenges with high AoA and stalling at low speeds.
These users thanked the author grigorib for the post:
elguapo (Thu May 02, 2019 8:51 pm)
Rating: 10%


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Peter_Frank and 10 guests

cron