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Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

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Matteo V
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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Matteo V » Sat May 04, 2019 4:57 am

foilholio wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 5:51 am
Matteo V wrote: Any......more.......elaborate thoughts on my assumptions?
Let me help.

1. You don't have waves
2. You don't try ride waves
3. You can't ride waves
4. No tall buildings to jump off.
Actually, I ride on the west coast of the United States (in the ocean break) for about 3month during the summer. As to number 4, I cannot say at any time when I have ever contemplated jumping off a building, with or without a kite. So could you try to maybe clarify your attempt at helping me? Or was this specifically intended to be unhelpful? Either way, it is good to have you contribute to the forum.

Matteo V
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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Matteo V » Sat May 04, 2019 5:10 am

TomW wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:14 pm
2. Don't know why you'd want to control power by surface riding. Just point upwind or go downwind while flying.
My spring/fall local lake for an after work session has extremely turbulent wind. We have had kiters show up there who can throw tricks that I cannot even name, but they still get blown downwind and can't keep up with those of us with local experience. I also frequent some destination lakes (2-5hours away) that have very clean wind. There, the foil game is much different.

So the problem with running on my home lake is that you will get a 1.5 second gust, build up tons of speed, and then over run the kite as that speed pulls you into the lull. Going upwind takes you too close to the trees on the windward side of the lake and you lose wind, along with the ability to relaunch the kite. So just heading upwind to shed power for more than 1 run is a no-go. Currently, my strategy on my home lake is to go as far upwind as will still have clean wind, ride there, and have to put the board on the water to run downwind if the wind comes up or gets "crazy impossible" to ride with a foil.

I am not saying I am the best foiler, but I don't have anyone else to compare to on my home lake as no one else foils there. At the cleanest wind destination lake, there are lots of foils there. In the summer, I do get ocean clean winds in swell and the waves. But I still do not have a larger foil for waveriding. But the difference riding in steady wind vs turbulent wind is night and day with a foil. On a surfboard, I guess I am just used to it. While my foil is low aspect, it is decent sized and considered a slower foil, but I suspect it is not sized to my 100+kg weight. Thus I am looking into bigger foils for the reasons why Kami says he believes they are better.

The big experimental payoff will be if trying a bigger foil on my home lake in turbulent wind makes for a more comfortable ride. That is my hope, anyway.

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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Kamikuza » Sat May 04, 2019 10:16 am

Jyoder wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:31 pm
I tried my old Stringy foil wing again after a couple months on my big surf wing and could hardly ride it. Took so much speed and effort. How the heck did I learn on that thing!?
I swapped with a Naish kite foil today ... good lord it was horrible. Must have been poorly set up cos I don't remember my kite foil being that on/off, but it just had zero glide and kept wanting to fall off the foil. Managed some gybes, but they weren't fun and I needed to be pulled around everywhere by the kite...

Then I got back on my foil and nailed my first heel side 360 on the first attempt :lol: on the foil too. Because it just glides forever.

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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby tomtom » Sat May 04, 2019 10:27 am

No offense but surface riding as "gust killer" is wrong strategy. Foil is best tool for riding on impossible locations. Because you can use very small kite. I was riding on very small lake /like 300x300m/ surrounded by trees. Impossible to ride on anything else. Foil has best ability to glide through lulls and with very small kite you survive gust without problem. You ride much more on apparent wind than on anything else and apparent wind isnt related so much on actual wind - so wind actually feels more stable to you on foil. Large foil and small kite are best impossible locations combo.

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Kamikuza
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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Kamikuza » Sat May 04, 2019 11:05 am

Matteo V wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:10 am
Thus I am looking into bigger foils for the reasons why Kami says he believes they are better.

The big experimental payoff will be if trying a bigger foil on my home lake in turbulent wind makes for a more comfortable ride. That is my hope, anyway.
I'm on an inland lake too. Because you rely so much less on the kite, gusty wind doesn't matter so much -- if you have the depower range in the kite. And your kites are smaller so gusts aren't so brutal.

Try the different (area) sizes of wing, try different AR.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 04, 2019 11:27 am

Agree, as you will ride smaller kites you can handle this tricky wind a lot better with bigger wings :thumb:

8) Peter

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Kamikuza
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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Kamikuza » Sat May 04, 2019 11:50 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 10:16 am
Jyoder wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:31 pm
I tried my old Stringy foil wing again after a couple months on my big surf wing and could hardly ride it. Took so much speed and effort. How the heck did I learn on that thing!?
I swapped with a Naish kite foil today ... good lord it was horrible.
Oh it was the Hover 127 board too.

The wind was light enough that I needed at least two strokes of the kite to get up and foiling, and so my theory that a bigger board is NOT hugely beneficial in light wind has been back-to-back confirmed.

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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby TomW » Sat May 04, 2019 6:42 pm

Oi. Matteo.
OK, I understand. I have whole ocean and usually pretty much alone or really alone...like today. I was out in 20 knots, 1m swell, perfect NW, side onshore conditions. Only occasional dog Walker or jogger on the beach. I think closest kiter was 50km away.
Very to over powered on my Hyperlink 7m. I was thinking about this post.
To control over power: kite high, point downwind. Kite fairly low, drive upwind.

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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby Slyde » Sat May 04, 2019 9:02 pm

They are boring
Ok for learning and surf but didn’t we all get into kitesurfing because we liked the buzz of hooking into that Raw power. I like to get my heart rate up when I do sports.
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jumptheshark
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Re: Disadvantages of larger foil wings?

Postby jumptheshark » Sun May 05, 2019 6:06 am

I’m not sure yet, but flat water and wave gear have never been a thrilling combo.

I’m still mid experiment. On my third wing in three seasons. Haven’t gone back to try a smaller wing yet. At this point I’m happy in flat water/light wind just learning the limits on a bigger low aspect but fast profile wing. At this stage working on tacks is plenty fun. Eventually I can see it losing some thrill and maybe wanting to try my faster wings again. I have a foil that can be assembled canard and want to try that someday but am having too much fun on the learning curve to bother just yet.


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