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Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

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tkaraszewski
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Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby tkaraszewski » Sat May 04, 2019 4:53 pm

Lately there's been nearly no new discussion of any fast foil wings on here (or any other kite website I've seen, but this is the biggest). Everyone at my local spot is on surf wings of various types, mostly Moses/Slingshot and Lift. There's more buzz about things like the Neil Pryde Glide than the Moses Havok, which I've hardly seen anything about (and doesn't look like it's available anywhere, anyway).

It seems the current state of kitefoiling is you're either in a relatively small niche on a Mike's Lab actually competing in regattas, or you've switched to a surf-style wing for anything else. Does anyone think this is a fad and faster wings will come back into fashion (maybe some more accessible faster wings that combine some of the traits of race wings with surf wings, i.e., larger area high-aspect wings), or is it surf wings for the foreseeable future?

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic? I'm currently riding a 683S, so it's not like I don't understand the appeal of the bigger wings, but I did always want to be able to do 20 knots upwind. I guess there's nothing stopping me from buying a race foil (except money).

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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby flaps1111 » Sat May 04, 2019 5:10 pm

It's easy freeride rules. Not everyone wants a Lamborghini for everyday use.
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grigorib (Sat May 04, 2019 6:00 pm)
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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby Foil » Sat May 04, 2019 5:38 pm

I think its a little to do with your sailing location as well.
for example when I go to lake Como, it's the race wings without hesitation.

Used both wing types there, but the flat water entry, deep water in all areas, no weed, no plastic bags or bits of boats, no dozy seals.nothing to hit.really nothing to put me off going silly fast, the Moses race wings are awesome on these massive flat water locations.

But on the coast here in the uk the surf wings are first choice for me, in fact I have now sold my race wings as they are not fun to use on the open sea for me, always on the edge of crashing, never really enjoying the on the edge feeling.and never having the space to let the wings fly, blasting out to sea for miles is not a comfortable thought without safety cover.

I have just cancelled my booked 3 week holiday to Lake Como for this year, and booked 3 months on fuerteventura instead.
the 633/683s type of surf wings have transformed the whole experience for me,
very much for the better.

And you can still get the need for speed on both these wings, its takes a lot of time to get the best from the 633 and 683s, but give them time and they will deliver the goods.

4 hours today on my 8mtr in choppy wavy conditions, 633 was my chosen wing, unbelievably good time, the fastest I have ever been on this wing with the best carves ever on the small waves,
it just gets better and better.

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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby Slyde » Sat May 04, 2019 8:52 pm

No way, slow foils are boring. I have both and hardly ever use my slower wings. I love speeeeeed and the buzz of high speed in light winds. I also like them in strong winds too. Fast foils jump better, and are generally better quality stiffer foils too. Once you are comfortable with the speed they are also more stable to transition as they tend to be wider and more roll stable. They also have longer masts and handle chop better.This forum has become dominated by the “ I’m scared I might hurt myself” brigade and is also naturally geared more towards starting foilers. I predict that more and more will start to appreciate a faster foil as they get better. Lots and lots of cheap high quality race foils for sale these days. When you ride one for a while then go back to a slower foil with a poorer quality mast you will notice the difference. Don’t believe everything you read on this forum. Big slow foils are for SUPs and surfing😉
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airsail (Sat May 04, 2019 9:43 pm)
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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby DukeSilver » Sun May 05, 2019 1:33 am

I like the idea of riding both styles. There are days when I feel like going on long trips upwind followed by a nice down wind run. Other days I want to just do short runs and practice tacks and 360's etc. I currently ride a Slingshot Hoverglide which I enjoy, but would one day like to have a faster carbon freeride foil like a Moses Fluente with a 550 wing and get a 633 / 683 for the waves and general noodling around. There are a group of pretty good racers who do a lot of training at my local spots and while I don't have any aspirations to race, they are inspiring to watch.
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Peter_Frank (Sun May 05, 2019 5:46 am)
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cwood
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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby cwood » Sun May 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Slyde wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:52 pm
No way, slow foils are boring. I have both and hardly ever use my slower wings. I love speeeeeed and the buzz of high speed in light winds. I also like them in strong winds too. Fast foils jump better, and are generally better quality stiffer foils too. Once you are comfortable with the speed they are also more stable to transition as they tend to be wider and more roll stable. They also have longer masts and handle chop better.This forum has become dominated by the “ I’m scared I might hurt myself” brigade and is also naturally geared more towards starting foilers. I predict that more and more will start to appreciate a faster foil as they get better. Lots and lots of cheap high quality race foils for sale these days. When you ride one for a while then go back to a slower foil with a poorer quality mast you will notice the difference. Don’t believe everything you read on this forum. Big slow foils are for SUPs and surfing😉
I'm with you....will always choose the Havok unless very wavy...but even in these cases I find it fun to try to carve up the waves with the race wings. They are just liquid smooth by comparison and friction-less.....like silk. I find transitions more fun as well because the speed retains effortlessly. Every once in a while I throw up a small kite and play with a wave wing and it gets it out of my system pretty fast. The other major advantage is boost performance...speed = height.

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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby windmaker » Sun May 05, 2019 1:46 pm

cwood wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:11 pm
Slyde wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:52 pm
No way, slow foils are boring. I have both and hardly ever use my slower wings. I love speeeeeed and the buzz of high speed in light winds. I also like them in strong winds too. Fast foils jump better, and are generally better quality stiffer foils too. Once you are comfortable with the speed they are also more stable to transition as they tend to be wider and more roll stable. They also have longer masts and handle chop better.This forum has become dominated by the “ I’m scared I might hurt myself” brigade and is also naturally geared more towards starting foilers. I predict that more and more will start to appreciate a faster foil as they get better. Lots and lots of cheap high quality race foils for sale these days. When you ride one for a while then go back to a slower foil with a poorer quality mast you will notice the difference. Don’t believe everything you read on this forum. Big slow foils are for SUPs and surfing😉
I'm with you....will always choose the Havok unless very wavy...but even in these cases I find it fun to try to carve up the waves with the race wings. They are just liquid smooth by comparison and friction-less.....like silk. I find transitions more fun as well because the speed retains effortlessly. Every once in a while I throw up a small kite and play with a wave wing and it gets it out of my system pretty fast. The other major advantage is boost performance...speed = height.
Agreed, in many places hydrofoil riders are new to the sport and believe (or made to) that larger slower wings are better, easier, safer. Mainstream kite brands producing price point thick low aspect wings and shorter masts that can cope with cheaper materials. High aspect wings can only be made using better materials.

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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby grigorib » Sun May 05, 2019 3:32 pm

As much as I enjoy lowend of 633/683s I would ride 590 anywhere where water is clean of seaweed, so I don’t feel like “hitting a deer and dragging it under my car”.
I think I want to try 645 wing but it would take a larger body of water to play in too.

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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby windmaker » Sun May 05, 2019 4:20 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 3:32 pm
As much as I enjoy lowend of 633/683s I would ride 590 anywhere where water is clean of seaweed, so I don’t feel like “hitting a deer and dragging it under my car”.
I think I want to try 645 wing but it would take a larger body of water to play in too.
Don't know what you are talking off with all those numbers. Is that surface area?

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Re: Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

Postby grigorib » Sun May 05, 2019 4:25 pm

windmaker wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:20 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 3:32 pm
As much as I enjoy lowend of 633/683s I would ride 590 anywhere where water is clean of seaweed, so I don’t feel like “hitting a deer and dragging it under my car”.
I think I want to try 645 wing but it would take a larger body of water to play in too.
Don't know what you are talking off with all those numbers. Is that surface area?
Moses wings (numbers are wingspan)
633 and 683s are slower, lowend surf/kite wings
590 is faster (compared to 633/683s) wing but is slowest kite foil wing (not counting surf wings)
645 is 2019 race wing


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