Are fast foil wings dead outside of racing?

[davesails7]

I go to a few races a year, but usually riding around on race gear on my own. Even if I gave up racing, Id stick with the fast foil.

The slow wings feel super draggy in comparison. I rode a cabrinha double agent once for a few minutes and no joke had to stop three times to check there was nothing stuck on it! I was certain there must have been a plastic bag stuck on it to feel so draggy and vibrate like that

Hitting seaweed and sea life at speed is the downside to the fast foil

[jakemoore]

Medium to fast Moses (and rebrand) wings seem to be most common here for free ride and jumping.

[windmaker]

As much as I enjoy lowend of 633/683s I would ride 590 anywhere where water is clean of seaweed, so I don’t feel like “hitting a deer and dragging it under my car”.
I think I want to try 645 wing but it would take a larger body of water to play in too.

Don't know what you are talking off with all those numbers. Is that surface area?

Moses wings (numbers are wingspan)
633 and 683s are slower, lowend surf/kite wings
590 is faster (compared to 633/683s) wing but is slowest kite foil wing (not counting surf wings)
645 is 2019 race wing

Ok thanks very few Jesus foils here but still confusing as span doesn't say much . Why don't they use surface area like everybody else? Can' t imagine what would happen if they measured kites the same way...

[grigorib]

Don't know what you are talking off with all those numbers. Is that surface area?

Moses wings (numbers are wingspan)
633 and 683s are slower, lowend surf/kite wings
590 is faster (compared to 633/683s) wing but is slowest kite foil wing (not counting surf wings)
645 is 2019 race wing

Ok thanks very few Jesus foils here but still confusing as span doesn't say much . Why don't they use surface area like everybody else? Can' t imagine what would happen if they measured kites the same way...

Profile thickness and AR matter a lot too. I agree though - area numbers are more indicative, more of being key compared to wingspan.

[tkaraszewski]

After starting this topic, I decided I'd put my 550/330 wingset back on my foil and give that a ride. It isn't really that much faster than the 683/483. It is a little bit faster. The fastest speed I hit on the 550 was 23.7 knots, compared to 21.6 in a ride on the 683 on the same kite in the same conditions. I probably could go faster on the 550 if I practiced on it though, I haven't ridden it in a long time and it felt tiring just to ride it. It also felt like I could use a size bigger kite with it, too.

Polars chart comparing 550/330 wingset (solid colors) to 683/483 wingset (dashed lines). Both recorded in approximately 12-21 knots of wind on a 7m Cabrinha Apollo. Speeds are in knots.

[junebug]

Hitting seaweed and sea life at speed is the downside to the fast foil

Yes! It’s sharky where I live, and I used to hit sharks every other session when I was riding the Lift 110. Now that I ride the Lift 150, I haven’t hit a shark in over a year. I think the slower speed of the 150 gives them time to get out of the way.

[Macster]

After starting this topic, I decided I'd put my 550/330 wingset back on my foil and give that a ride. It isn't really that much faster than the 683/483. It is a little bit faster. The fastest speed I hit on the 550 was 23.7 knots, compared to 21.6 in a ride on the 683 on the same kite in the same conditions. I probably could go faster on the 550 if I practiced on it though, I haven't ridden it in a long time and it felt tiring just to ride it. It also felt like I could use a size bigger kite with it, too.

Polars chart comparing 550/330 wingset (solid colors) to 683/483 wingset (dashed lines). Both recorded in approximately 12-21 knots of wind on a 7m Cabrinha Apollo. Speeds are in knots.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I have the same sets of wings and I actually find the 683 to more playful / nimble than the 550 and it can go reasonably quick but it's more effort and less stable at 15+ knots

[cwood]

I go to a few races a year, but usually riding around on race gear on my own. Even if I gave up racing, Id stick with the fast foil.

The slow wings feel super draggy in comparison. I rode a cabrinha double agent once for a few minutes and no joke had to stop three times to check there was nothing stuck on it! I was certain there must have been a plastic bag stuck on it to feel so draggy and vibrate like that

Hitting seaweed and sea life at speed is the downside to the fast foil

Me too! traded a guy my Moses for a try of his Nobile split foil. I thought it was broken it felt so bad...jumped off and checked to see if a rope was dragging behind. All he could say is "oh....my.....god" and now rides a Moses.

[NYKiter]

I think it might depend on wind conditions as well, if your on the garbage frontal winds of the great lakes like we are slow and big handles gusts and holes nicely...rather than silky ocean breezes....

[Kamikuza]

The slow wings feel super draggy in comparison. I rode a cabrinha double agent once for a few minutes and no joke had to stop three times to check there was nothing stuck on it!

Even compared to my old LF foil, the Double Agent was slow and draggy.