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Hydrofoil too big?

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Hydrofoil too big?

Postby njrider » Wed May 08, 2019 2:01 am

Hi everyone. Just went out for the first time today on a foil - I'm humbled, but so stoked for the new adventure. So I have a question - is their such a thing as too big of a front wing. I was using the slingshot h2 (old fsurf wing). I felt like the wing was rising before I could even get my alien air on plane? Or it could have been lack of experience. Would love to hear your thoughts...

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Re: Hydrofoil to BIG?

Postby tegirinenashi » Wed May 08, 2019 2:10 am

Feeling of foil lift with board on surface is actually a good thing. It helps developing your foiling instincts and riding skills. The opposite -- lack of lift due to small surface area -- is very unpleasant. To get some lift you have to reach higher speed and maintain high concentration to perform even basic thing, like flying in the straight line.

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Re: Hydrofoil to BIG?

Postby grigorib » Wed May 08, 2019 2:17 am

H2 is about 900 sq.cm wing - which is not too big.
If your foil goes up before you intend to - move your back foot further forward and it might provide a remedy.

I suggest new foilers to have their setup ridden by experienced riders and have them tune mast/straps position, and then moving mast back (or straps forward) by an inch for learning phase.

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Re: Hydrofoil to BIG?

Postby BWD » Wed May 08, 2019 2:32 am

better yet, no straps.
your feet find where they need to be, everything is easier and crashing hurts less.
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Re: Hydrofoil too big?

Postby njrider » Wed May 08, 2019 2:02 pm

Currently, my board is setup with 2 half straps. I like the idea of moving my back foot forward - I have both straps set at the widest position - so maybe my back foot is too far back. I was only trying to ride on the surface - that did not happen :)

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Re: Hydrofoil too big?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 08, 2019 2:06 pm

njrider wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:01 am
Hi everyone. Just went out for the first time today on a foil - I'm humbled, but so stoked for the new adventure. So I have a question - is their such a thing as too big of a front wing. I was using the slingshot h2 (old fsurf wing). I felt like the wing was rising before I could even get my alien air on plane? Or it could have been lack of experience. Would love to hear your thoughts...

It is not the wing, it is you, sorry to say this :wink:

But dont worry, everybody experience this.

Extremely difficult to learn hydrofoiling, a few can do it fast, but most will experience a rodeo ride so impossible that one thinks "How can ANYONE do this relaxed???".

Just keep on riding, be very gentle with footpressure and dont ride too powered, and have an experienced rider check your foil is in trim.
And then stand a bit further forward than that when learning.

What you experience is pretty normal and we have all went through this, so just carry on :thumb:

8) PF

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Re: Hydrofoil too big?

Postby grigorib » Wed May 08, 2019 2:23 pm

njrider wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:02 pm
Currently, my board is setup with 2 half straps. I like the idea of moving my back foot forward - I have both straps set at the widest position - so maybe my back foot is too far back. I was only trying to ride on the surface - that did not happen :)
To ride on surface - just step forward your back foot and place it above or in front of the mast. This technique helps going when grossly overpowered and all you want is to ride back to shore

Also on Alien Air board the Hoverglide mast should be mounted as far back as possible, if I recall comments from riders of that setup

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Re: Hydrofoil too big?

Postby Kamikuza » Wed May 08, 2019 2:41 pm

njrider wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:02 pm
Currently, my board is setup with 2 half straps. I like the idea of moving my back foot forward - I have both straps set at the widest position - so maybe my back foot is too far back. I was only trying to ride on the surface - that did not happen :)
Forget the board, just pretend it isn't there. Ride the foil, imagine yourself an extension of the mast and you're standing on the foil. Because if you try and edge the board or ride it on the water like you would other boards, you're going to get lobbed, twisted, and pummeled.

Mount the foil all the way back in the tracks, the front strap all the way forward* and as wide and loose as you can. Lose the back strap, that's the one that wrecks ankles the most. IIRC the SS straps aren't very big ... so get something else.
* IMO you want a comfortable stance width -- feet too wide will be too tiring and twitchy, too narrow and you'll have insufficient trim control. Maybe a tiny bit wider than a TT stance, if your strap positions allow.

You really only need a front strap to hold the board in position when you water start; you can get your back foot in the right spot easy.
My advice is put a mark on the deck of the board to show yourself where the mast plate is, then aim to put your foot on top of that when you start ie. in the middle of the mast.

Ride with the board on the water -- FLAT -- and look upwind to go upwind.

Let board speed lift the foil, don't try to pop it up with back foot pressure.

Forget the kite, don't try and load it up, don't lean against it.

You'll need to ride faster than you probably do on a TT to get the foil in it's cruising speed*... If you try and ride it slower than it likes (foil doesn't care about your comfort zone) you'll discover the equivalent of trying to ride a bicycle as slow as possible -- an impossible balancing act.
* This is not a contradiction with the above point -- initially you'll need to ride almost the same size kite as you would a TT so you can build apparent wind easily without loading your kite up.

If you think you're riding fast enough but the foil isn't flying, move a foot back -- either your front or your rear foot, just wriggle it back an inch at a time. Remember your stance width though.

Alien Air board was a bit wrong, even the original HoverGlide needed the foil all the way back and the straps all the way forward...
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Re: Hydrofoil too big?

Postby junebug » Wed May 08, 2019 3:07 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:41 pm
njrider wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:02 pm
Currently, my board is setup with 2 half straps. I like the idea of moving my back foot forward - I have both straps set at the widest position - so maybe my back foot is too far back. I was only trying to ride on the surface - that did not happen :)
Forget the board, just pretend it isn't there. Ride the foil, imagine yourself an extension of the mast and you're standing on the foil. Because if you try and edge the board or ride it on the water like you would other boards, you're going to get lobbed, twisted, and pummeled.

Mount the foil all the way back in the tracks, the front strap all the way forward* and as wide and loose as you can. Lose the back strap, that's the one that wrecks ankles the most. IIRC the SS straps aren't very big ... so get something else.
* IMO you want a comfortable stance width -- feet too wide will be too tiring and twitchy, too narrow and you'll have insufficient trim control. Maybe a tiny bit wider than a TT stance, if your strap positions allow.

You really only need a front strap to hold the board in position when you water start; you can get your back foot in the right spot easy.
My advice is put a mark on the deck of the board to show yourself where the mast plate is, then aim to put your foot on top of that when you start ie. in the middle of the mast.

Ride with the board on the water -- FLAT -- and look upwind to go upwind.

Let board speed lift the foil, don't try to pop it up with back foot pressure.

Forget the kite, don't try and load it up, don't lean against it.

You'll need to ride faster than you probably do on a TT to get the foil in it's cruising speed*... If you try and ride it slower than it likes (foil doesn't care about your comfort zone) you'll discover the equivalent of trying to ride a bicycle as slow as possible -- an impossible balancing act.
* This is not a contradiction with the above point -- initially you'll need to ride almost the same size kite as you would a TT so you can build apparent wind easily without loading your kite up.

If you think you're riding fast enough but the foil isn't flying, move a foot back -- either your front or your rear foot, just wriggle it back an inch at a time. Remember your stance width though.

Alien Air board was a bit wrong, even the original HoverGlide needed the foil all the way back and the straps all the way forward...
This is a great post for beginners generally.

The only thing I would change is that I think it is safer for beginners to use a front hook instead of a strap. Yes, the lines can get caught in the hook, but I think that is less risky than the risk of ankle injury with a front strap.

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Re: Hydrofoil too big?

Postby neilhapgood » Wed May 08, 2019 3:55 pm

about 6 weeks into my learning I used to say that if in some bizzare alternate universe I had invented my hydrofoil at the 6 week point I would have binned as being something that was never going to work,it just seemed impossible! It was only the knowledge that I knew thousands of people were making it work that kept me going until that magic day when it clicked!
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