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Gear for going fast

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 6:23 am
by OzBungy
I'd like to go faster. I am hitting terminal velocity in the mid-20 knot range with my surf kites and freeride foil.

What gear will give me the biggest speed boost?

I was thinking of buying a foil kite then getting a race foil and board. Answers to a similar post in another thread suggested a foil kite would not add much in straight line speed. That implies a high performance foil might be the go. I don't particularly want to go racing, just blasting along at high speed on smooth days.

I don't think it's a technique issue. I can get going fairly fast, particularly when the conditions are good. I reach a point where I just don't go any faster.

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 8:39 am
by foilholio
I would think the hydrofoil offers more speed than the kite but race kites are very fast.

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:18 am
by gmb13
OzBungy wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 6:23 am
I'd like to go faster. I am hitting terminal velocity in the mid-20 knot range with my surf kites and freeride foil.

What gear will give me the biggest speed boost?

I was thinking of buying a foil kite then getting a race foil and board. Answers to a similar post in another thread suggested a foil kite would not add much in straight line speed. That implies a high performance foil might be the go. I don't particularly want to go racing, just blasting along at high speed on smooth days.

I don't think it's a technique issue. I can get going fairly fast, particularly when the conditions are good. I reach a point where I just don't go any faster.
Hi Oz,

First off. What are you using now? What are your line lengths?

You can gain quite a lot of speed just by running shorter lines.

Here are my opinions on equipment

1) Kite: All my personal best straight line speeds are done on a Tube kite. To be specific, Ozone Edges. Foil kites are not really faster than Tube kites, they are just more efficient and allow better angles up and downwind for racing.

2) Foil: To hit high speeds you need control. So you need a foil that is stable at speed. At the moment the best race foils are also the easiest to handle at speed. For example Mikes Labs and Chubanga foils.

3) Board: The board will not be too important. It should however match well with the foil you will use. A good strap position will allow you to get more out of the board.

--
Gunnar

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:33 am
by windmaker
To go fast, you need to be well powered up. A foil kite will mostly give you better upwind and downwind angles (especially with shorter lines) and will also allow you to foil in super light winds where inflatables cannot stay in the air maybe a little more speed but it will be minimal. I ride both, Diablo, the new Halo and Bandits.

Where I found the most difference in speed is by changing the front and stabilizer of my foil. Smaller area and thinner profiles have much less drag that bigger thicker wings. Passing from a 650 cm2 MA front wing to a 510 cm2 HA I can feel a significant difference in speed, same with the stabilizer (from 300 to 210).

If the manufacturer of your foil offers smaller thinner, higher ratio options you will not need to by a new foil. Just like you I like going fast every now and then (more or less 30kts) but don't want to sacrifice my turns and freestyle in return.

Also, a stiff but especially thin mast will help. Mine is pretty thin (pre preg carbon 1.1 to 1.3mm tapered), some aluminum masts can be as thin as 15 mm which is already significantly more , most low tech aluminum 17, 18 mm ...

Most of all the sea state will make a huge difference in you confidence to really push.

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:38 am
by OzBungy
My "faster" foil is a J Shapes Freeride. It's about 750cm flat area, 5.9:1 flat AR. Projected are is more like 680cm and 4.9AR. 95cm mast. It's plenty fast for blasting around. Not breathtakingly fast in pure speed conditions.

It's all pretty stable and getting bucked off at speed is not a huge concern.

I ride a bunch of surf kites with 24m lines in the smaller sizes and 27m in the larger.

I have my eye on Chubanga and Enata foils and/or boards. I like the one piece fuselage and wings and tuttle mounts.

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:40 pm
by davesails7
In less than 10 knots, I think the foil kite does give you faster speeds. The windier it gets, the less benefit you get from a foil kite. The other benefit from foil kites is it floats you better through transitions.

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:28 pm
by Mossy 757
Have you attempted to tune the stabilizer angle or the strut-to-fuselage connection to allow your current setup to be stable at higher speeds?

I would also second short lines, well-powered tube kite, etc. but those won't overcome the sheer problem that your current foil is not designed to go as fast as you want. So whether you change the wings or buy a new one, that's where I'd focus your cash. The faster hydrofoils will be WAY WAY WAY faster on any old kite versus getting a high-end kite and keeping your slow hydrofoil. Also, faster hydrofoils are pretty easy to ride coming from a freeride setup, versus going to a race foil kite from a tube/surf kite will come with much more of a learning curve relatively speaking.

Re: Gear for going fast

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 6:13 am
by Slyde
I also have J shapes freeride and agree it tops out at 22-24 knots despite being stable at speed. I like it for high winds for this reason because I know it is speed limited. I have heard of guys who have pushed one to 30 knots but I can’t. My Spotz Shark is a lot faster especially off the wind and is really only limited by my lack of courage. Carrying as big a kite as you can handle helps. I am still chasing the magic 30 knots. When I hear of riders like Guy Bridge sustaining speeds over 30 knots for 20 minutes I am staggered by their talent. So definitely invest in a stable racefoil rather than a new kite. You will end up using the J shapes less though as the speed is addictive.