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Anyone here windsurf foil?

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3InletsWindsports
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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Thu May 23, 2019 8:38 am

I agree with above. It is a significant level of ability at windsurfing that you have to get to before adding the foil. As with Sup and prone.

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby gmb13 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:02 am

kitejumping wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:54 pm
So the closest legal water kiting spot to where I live with consistent wind is like 4 hours away, but I live right next to a big reservoir that allows windsurfing for half the year when it's not frozen (I snowkite on it the other half of the year). They allow SUP / windsurf boards / canoes / kayaks pretty much anything that can keep you out of the water when there is no wind, so i've been seriously considering getting one of those Naish Hover windsurf boards.

Anyone here have any advice or experience with windsurf foilboards? I've windsurfed like twice in my life (but I was able to get planing and upwind fine the first time out, was pretty fun) so am a complete noob when it comes to windsurfing.

Would I also be able to use the same Naish hover 122 or 142 on lightwind days with a small kite to roam around the lake and as an intro to kite foiling (as the volume should be enough for them to classify it as a SUP assuming I can lay on it without sinking)?

I watched a few videos on youtube on it and it looks pretty fun, but any pointers or info would be great. When learning about it in the past it sounded like the crossover foil boards (I think it was an AHD at the time) were super dangerous, and someone on these forums knew someone that rode one crashed and had to get a ton of stitches. Are the naish windsurf foil boards more developed and less dangerous than the SUP foil boards of 4 years ago?

Thanks!
Hi Dude,

If you managed to get the windsurfer planing and can ride in the harness, you should be able to handle windfoiling pretty easily. I am a really bad windsurfer and I can windfoil way better than I can windsurf with a normal board. 4 Years ago we did not have proper SUD Foils let alone supfoil boards, so I am not sure which boards you are talking about.

My current favorite windfoil combo for cruising and exploring is a 7'8" 138L SUPFoil/Windfoil hybrid board with 115cm Span Downwind foil. Barely needs power to get going and is a super chilled ride.



Also most recent supfoil/surf wings are pretty big and round, so not much chance of injury on those.

--
Gunnar
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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby kitejumping » Thu May 23, 2019 1:54 pm

Yeah, so kiting isn't banned but swimming is, since the water barely gets above freezing they only allow watercraft that can keep you 100% out of the water. So no twin tips or normal foil boards. The other idea I had was to pick up one of those old high volume fone race boards, but I think it would be fun to get good at windsurfing and foil windsurfing looks more fun than regular windsurfing. Any wind powered sport would be way more fun that just paddling around on a SUP since the reservoir is too small to get any waves.

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby ronnie » Thu May 23, 2019 4:52 pm

kitejumping wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:54 pm
Yeah, so kiting isn't banned but swimming is, since the water barely gets above freezing they only allow watercraft that can keep you 100% out of the water. So no twin tips or normal foil boards. The other idea I had was to pick up one of those old high volume fone race boards, but I think it would be fun to get good at windsurfing and foil windsurfing looks more fun than regular windsurfing. Any wind powered sport would be way more fun that just paddling around on a SUP since the reservoir is too small to get any waves.
This is a video of a Mike's Lab kite race board - about 190cm by 70cm and 90 litres. It's converted to be used as a windfoil board, but it could also be done in a way that kept the kite powered option. At 90 litres, you would probably want to be able to uphaul it, so would probably need to weigh <70kg. It would also be too difficult to learn to windfoil on if you couldn't windsurf.

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby norcom » Thu May 23, 2019 5:10 pm

kitejumping wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:54 pm
but I think it would be fun to get good at windsurfing and foil windsurfing looks more fun than regular windsurfing.
Windsurfing is easy to start learning but very hard to progress. With a big floaty board and a small sail you'll be shlogging around on your first try but getting on a plane, hooking into the harness and straps takes time. Windsurfing requires a lot more wind than kiting, even with 9-12m sails. Big sails are VERY heavy and learning with them isn't fun. You can find old longboards that will make light wind windsurfing days extremely fun but they're not an adrenaline rush and you don't get the same sensation as on a foil.

I learned to windsruf many years ago, swiched to kiting, then started kite foiling. Took me a couple of years to progress where I'm carving effortlessly with a kite and foil. Then tried windfoiling and was up on my third tack. It took me a few sessions to feel comfortable to windfoil. I would have never learned to windsurf if I had to start with a windfoil right off the bat.

All of this will take a long time unless you're able to dedicate all your time to learn and have wind. And even though foiling is a lot of fun, every time I rig up my windsurf gear and hit the waves I get a huge grin. Windsurfing is incredible but it's hard work with or without the foil.

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby Eltreato » Fri May 24, 2019 12:51 am

Hello Kitejumping,

I was just passing through and saw your thread, I can answer your question. My progression has been as follows: windsurfing 1989-2004 -> kiteboarding -> 2004-2018 kitefoiling 2015-2018 (albeit not super well) -> windfoiling 2018-present.

I made the mistake of trying windfoiling on a whim a year ago, having primarily kited for the last 15 years. What interested me about it was that it got around all the annoying beach closures in my locale during the summer, and the boards have enough volume to schlog you home when the wind dies.

Well since that one day a year ago, I've kited 5 or 6 times, but have windfoiled probably 30, regardless of whether kiting was an option at that beach. Hydrofoils first appealed to me as a lightwind fun toy, unfortunately the lightwinds that got me out kitefoiling would crap out half the time forcing me to swim. When I first jumped on a windfoil I was foiling right away, unlike kiting there's no difficult body dragging and waterstarting, you just climb on the board uphaul, lean a bit farther forwards than you normally do and you're good to go. The big board gives me confidence to do long reaches way out into the bay and go exploring far upwind, I was always more hesitant to do so kitefoiling. With kitefoiling I had so much fun, but in the back of my mind I always felt like I was in between kitemares, not that I had any bad experiences other than a couple giant swims.

Something I discovered in high winds with windfoiling is just how much fun it is to ride small swells with a surf foil wing. With kiting on swells I only ever felt that I got a couple moments at a time where I could slack the lines and ride the swell before the kite started falling out of the sky. The same goes for kiting with a surfboard or twin tip in swell and waves. With windfoiling I just sheet out on the swell and get all my power from the swell, it is so much fun.

I'll keep my kiting stuff for shallow skim sessions and the small wave breaks we sometimes get here on sandbars, or for riding with my kite friends, as hardly anyone here windfoils yet. Right now windfoiling is getting me out on the water more than any other option. I was lucky to be able to get into the sport fairly cheaply as I started with a converted slalom board, and windsurfing sails and gear are super cheap on the used market compared to kites. I had no qualms with riding a 1997 slalom sail that I got for free but there's no way in hell I'd have ever gone kitefoiling on a 22 year-old Wipika, even if it had high depower like today's kites. In fact many windfoilers feel the old sails are often the next best thing to windfoil-specific sails.

Windsurfing is hard, kitesurfing is easy, windfoiling is easy, kitefoiling is hard! With even basic windsurfing skills windfoiling shouldn't be a problem for you.


If you get the chance, give it a shot!
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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby bragnouff » Fri May 24, 2019 1:48 am

Eltreato wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 12:51 am
(...)
unlike kiting there's no difficult body dragging and waterstarting, you just climb on the board uphaul, lean a bit farther forwards than you normally do and you're good to go.
Well actually, I don't see how windfoiling would work to get started on onshore winds with 2ft beach break. Whereas the kite allows you to bodydrag upwind past the breakers until it's deep enough to start.

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby Eltreato » Fri May 24, 2019 3:24 am

You are right. I never have to deal with a beach break. Kitefoiling would be way better for that.

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri May 24, 2019 2:06 pm

Amazing we got so different views on this.

I have been windsurfing since the start in 1978-79.

A few years ago I went windfoiling too, and many of the youngsters here windfoil too, since a year or 1½ year - they learn extremely fast.
The "old men" dont really want to change ha haa, as they know it will take a long time for them, and they know the gear they got now :naughty:
Sorry, off topic.

My reasoning why I dont really windfoil anymore is:

It needs more wind than kitefoil, period.
Board and booms are huge, compared to kiteboards and bars - although sails and kites are the same in term of space.

Meaning it is almost impossible to take both with you in even a midsized car, you often have to choose one or another.
I dont like that, particularly not if choosing windfoil and the wind stays down at 7-8 knots where you can kitefoil even with a 10 or 12 m2 LEI, but only ride windfoil non-planing on the surface, doing 100s of helitacks till you get bored - this is why it was lovely to start kitesurfing instead back in the days, where we could be planing all the time even if not sufficient wind to go upwind.
With my biggest 5.8 m2 sail I need even more wind than 8 knots, maybe 11-13, but could get a bigger sail - although then the agility gets lost.

Looking away from this practical issue, then there are two major bummers IMO.

Going out: You have to lift/drag/wear the combo out.
If you think an aluminium kitefoil is heavy and bulky, then try a windfoil :naughty:
You have to drag the board out foil up, over the sand reefs, and then you have to swim in the water, pushing or dragging your windfoil in the water, to get out so you are sure it wont hit the bottom.
From then on it is great though :thumb:

Apart from, that it seems a lot more risky to ride waves in the shallows (usually only here they are present), as your ability to abort without risking your foil, is much lower IMO, on a windfoil.
They also seem to turn slower meaning small windwaves are not that good for a windfoil, whereas swell could be fantastic - but also on a kitefoil actually.

When going ashore it is even more cumbersome, as you have to stop a while further out than where you started, on a windfoil.
The tide usually changes while out, so you must stop a bit before where you started.
Then you have to jump into the water, and swim the whole thing towards where you can stand on the bottom, again board upside down (foil up) so you dont ruin it.

On a kitefoil you can usually ride extremely close to the shore, you dont need much more than one foot of water (going out you have to drag yourself out, but superfast with foilboard on its side).
And you can jump off without leading to any stress on your kitefoil at all, put it gently down on the side, or if straps, lean rearwards and lift foil up over the water as many does.
Not possible with the windfoil, as it will really be destroyed by the mass and weight of the whole combo sail-mast-board-foil, and not really possible to turn it upside down if you foil into the shallows.
I dont know of any method yet at least :roll:

Rigging up/down takes about the same amount of time, whether a windfoil or a kitefoil - I DID time it to compare yes, no difference really.


You can ride long distance on a windfoil, without risk, THAT is true :D
I usually stay pretty close to shore myself, opposed to racers who ride EVERYWHERE (but get the loooong swim on occasion), so can almost always loop myself ashore, and wait for wind or pack down and walk home, even if a pretty long walk.
The thing is, you can kitefoil in somewhat less wind than you can windfoil, this in itself makes it an uneven comparison.
Also the fact that we CAN get up foiling in the slightest gust (looping the kite), where a windfoil will stay glued to the water a bit longer (pumping the sail), thus the gust might not be sufficient, or it does not "travel" down to the water surface.

Yes, if the wind gets below 7 knots there is a risk it could drop so you can not ride on your kitefoil anymore.
But this is still wayyy less than what is needed for fun windfoil.

Riding in offshore with a lot less risk, also true for windfoiling.
So if you only got one spot, yes, a huge advantage and windfoil so much better :D
Around here we can drive very easy to a spot regardless of wind direction, thus not a problem.

Also, we can ride the same small and nifty foilboards down to a quite low wind, where a windfoil needs a bigger sail and still dont come close.
Meaning, a kitefoil is a lot more agile, even in light winds.

Both "sports" or what we call it, are great though :thumb:

But IMO a lot more hazzle with windfoil as written above :roll:

At least my experiences and when I compare windfoil to kitefoil myself in order to decide what to do.

8) Peter

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Re: Anyone here windsurf foil?

Postby nothing2seehere » Fri May 24, 2019 4:19 pm

Sam light managed to get going on a windfoil fairly quickly:



Looks doable for competent person. Had a couple of the early adopter kitefoil people locally who have changed to windfoil and have never looked back. The claims here are that the low end is much better on a windfoil. I have heard the reps claiming as low as 4knots for the big wing models - though I suspect that may involve a lot of prior skill. I gather the big change is getting used to the extra roll balance.


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